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exploits and bans

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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#21 - 2015-01-18 10:52:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Clearly an exploit. What do you think the 15min criminal timer is there for.


He got blown up by concord so he wasn't avoiding them. What he was doing was ganking the bowhead, concord blows him up,he then docks, undocks in a nubship, gets the concord spawn to warp to station to blow it up, warps to orca, gets in a new gank ship and ganks the target.

Its effectively just pulling concord around, a tactic used by both miners for protection and gankers to remove concord spawns in places they want to gank. CCP said pulling concord around isn't an exploit.



He was avoiding the penalties of the 15 min criminal timer.

If that timer is not specifically designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, what do you think its for?

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2015-01-18 10:53:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


He got banned last week, actually. That's what the OP is referring to.


That was kept rather quiet.


Do they ever announce these? Or do we find out about them through third party social media?


I think they announced the boomerang tactic being an exploit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2015-01-18 10:59:23 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:



He was avoiding the penalties of the 15 min criminal timer.


How? His ships all got blown up by concord.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
If that timer is not specifically designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, what do you think its for?


It was working as intended, all of his ships got blown up. Concord response time when off grid was exactly the same as in any other instance. All he did was move concord around the system, something that CCP has said is not an exploit.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-01-18 11:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Clearly an exploit. What do you think the 15min criminal timer is there for.


He got blown up by concord so he wasn't avoiding them. What he was doing was ganking the bowhead, concord blows him up,he then docks, undocks in a nubship, gets the concord spawn to warp to station to blow it up, warps to orca, gets in a new gank ship and ganks the target.

Its effectively just pulling concord around, a tactic used by both miners for protection and gankers to remove concord spawns in places they want to gank. CCP said pulling concord around isn't an exploit.



He was avoiding the penalties of the 15 min criminal timer.

If that timer is not specifically designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, what do you think its for?
If the point of the GCC was to stop people immediately hopping into another ship after committing a criminal act it would prevent them from boarding a ship; something that would probably be fairly trivial for CCP to implement, the fact that they haven't done so suggests that you're wrong.

Case in point, gankers often reship into newb ships or shuttles while under GCC, and then undock them to relocate Concord to their location. By your understanding of the GCC timer this is an exploit, one that is considered standard practice by gankers and has been used for years without interference from CCP.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#25 - 2015-01-18 11:03:14 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
By your understanding of the GCC timer this is an exploit, one that is considered standard practice by gankers and has been used for years without interference from CCP.


You mean "with explicit, documented and repeated approval from CCP."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-01-18 11:04:31 UTC
Spacewarp wrote:
Of course there was a new ban for the "bowhead" incident.

That started me wondering about exploits.

Is it an exploit if something you do isnt intended the way it should be by ccp?

If so did ccp intend the mechnism in space to be as bad as it is when we llok at bumping.
Did ccp intend it to be let a small shuttle be able to bump a ship the size of a cathedral or was it just that the programmers cant get their formulas right?

If they intedend it this way the we strike Eve is real :)
If they couldnt get it to work (yet) then bumping is an exploit.....

Your choice :)


AAh, look...someone is definately mad cause he was bumped.


p.s. It is an exploit...When CCP make a public announcement that something is considered an exploit. Easy as that.


in before Mr Ezwal is here.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-01-18 11:06:40 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Spacewarp wrote:
Of course there was a new ban for the "bowhead" incident.



Is there an official source for that?



This.

Proof or you are just rumour mongoring.

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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#28 - 2015-01-18 11:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
baltec1 wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:



He was avoiding the penalties of the 15 min criminal timer.


How? His ships all got blown up by concord.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
If that timer is not specifically designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, what do you think its for?


It was working as intended, all of his ships got blown up. Concord response time when off grid was exactly the same as in any other instance. All he did was move concord around the system, something that CCP has said is not an exploit.



What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is for?

I think its there to stop you immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act. I think its designed that way because sentry guns only fire if they witness an act of illegal aggression, meaning you can (in lowsec) warp of grid and come back and the sentry guns will have stopped firing on you.

With the 15 criminal timer, Concord will always come and blow up your ship whilst you have that timer. I'm not disputing that Concord did their job.

However its the 15 min criminal timer that I think was exploited. If it was designed the way I think it was, then the guy clearly exploited the game mechanics. Sadly only CCP really know the thinking behind the mechanic.

So, if its not to stop people re-shipping after committing a criminal act. What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-01-18 11:09:51 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Clearly an exploit. What do you think the 15min criminal timer is there for.


He got blown up by concord so he wasn't avoiding them. What he was doing was ganking the bowhead, concord blows him up,he then docks, undocks in a nubship, gets the concord spawn to warp to station to blow it up, warps to orca, gets in a new gank ship and ganks the target.

Its effectively just pulling concord around, a tactic used by both miners for protection and gankers to remove concord spawns in places they want to gank. CCP said pulling concord around isn't an exploit.



He was avoiding the penalties of the 15 min criminal timer.

If that timer is not specifically designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, what do you think its for?


He wasn't avoiding it. He was just using the game mechanics around how CONCORD spawns work.

Please, point me to your source that says that you are NOT allowed to undock with a 15 minute timer...

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-01-18 11:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:



He was avoiding the penalties of the 15 min criminal timer.


How? His ships all got blown up by concord.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
If that timer is not specifically designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, what do you think its for?


It was working as intended, all of his ships got blown up. Concord response time when off grid was exactly the same as in any other instance. All he did was move concord around the system, something that CCP has said is not an exploit.



What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is for?

I think its there to stop you immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act. I think its designed that way because sentry guns only fire if they witness an act of illegal aggression, meaning you can (in lowsec) warp of grid and come back and the sentry guns will have stopped firing on you.

With the 15 criminal timer, Concord will always come and blow up your ship whilst you have that timer. I'm not disputing that Concord did their job.

However its the 15 min criminal timer that I think was exploited. If it was designed the way I think it was, then the guy clearly exploited the game mechanics. Sadly only CCP really know the thinking behind the mechanic.

So, if its not to stop people re-shipping after committing a criminal act. What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?


Since when do game mechanics suppose to work on YOUR THOUGHT.

I think all PvE bears should be banned...does that mean it is now an exploit too to just PvE in EVE.

The guy did everything exactly inside the game rules.

He didn't evade CONCORD, every ship he boarded during his timer got blown up.


If CCP wanted you to not reship during a 15 minute GCC, they whould have made it impossible to board a ship.

WHat does the timer do?


REALLY.

A. Free target for all in EVE.
B. Garantueed loss of ship to CONCORD.

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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#31 - 2015-01-18 11:15:08 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


He wasn't avoiding it. He was just using the game mechanics around how CONCORD spawns work.

Please, point me to your source that says that you are NOT allowed to undock with a 15 minute timer...


You can undock with a 15 min criminal timer without Concord getting involved, by undocking in your pod.

If you undock(/or board) in a ship concord comes and shoot you. That seems to me that the mechanic is designed to stop people undocking in a ship with a criminal timer.

Thats just my take on what the game mechanics are designed to do. Only CCP really knows, but since they apparentley banned the guy (shrugs).

What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-01-18 11:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


He wasn't avoiding it. He was just using the game mechanics around how CONCORD spawns work.

Please, point me to your source that says that you are NOT allowed to undock with a 15 minute timer...


You can undock with a 15 min criminal timer without Concord getting involved, by undocking in your pod.

If you undock(/or board) in a ship concord comes and shoot you. That seems to me that the mechanic is designed to stop people undocking in a ship with a criminal timer.

Thats just my take on what the game mechanics are designed to do. Only CCP really knows, but since they apparentley banned the guy (shrugs).

What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?


Uhm...Nope

No NPC other then seekers do pod. This is likely a remnant from the old system where clones had costs and it would be very harsh to be podded and then not being able to play at all for 15 minutes.

The punishment of the timer: Lose any ship you get in space in 15 minutes. If you want to lose it, that's your choice..

If it was designed that you wouldn't be allowed to fly in a ship during that time at all...it would have been coded that you can't board a ship in space / can't undock a ship from a station during that timer. As it clearly is possible, nothing within the rules is preventing you from doing so.

p.s. Unless you are psychic, a covert CCP employee or an alt of the banned person...you have NO idea of the exact reason he was banned. It could be for something completely different.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2015-01-18 11:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


I think its there to stop you immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act.


You are wrong. Nothing stops you from jumping into a new ship.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


However its the 15 min criminal timer that I think was exploited. If it was designed the way I think it was, then the guy clearly exploited the game mechanics. Sadly only CCP really know the thinking behind the mechanic.

So, if its not to stop people re-shipping after committing a criminal act. What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?


Its there to punish people who have engaged in a criminal action. Any ship you undock or jump into will be destroyed during that 15 min window. In this case every single ship was destroyed by concord and their response time was exactly the same as normal.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#34 - 2015-01-18 11:20:32 UTC
J'Poll wrote:



REALLY.

A. Free target for all in EVE.
B. Garantueed loss of ship to CONCORD.



The timer wouldn't need to be 15 mins for that. If it was designed to work that way there would be no criminal timer, just the concord response and a suspect timer so the other players could shoot you.

Yet whenever you undock/board a ship with a criminal timer concord gets involved. If thats not designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, then I'm a walrus.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-01-18 11:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
If you undock(/or board) in a ship concord comes and shoot you. That seems to me that the mechanic is designed to stop people undocking in a ship with a criminal timer.
If that was the case CCP would have made it impossible to undock in a ship while under a GCC timer Roll

Quote:
Thats just my take on what the game mechanics are designed to do.
Your take is irrelevant, as
Quote:
Only CCP really knows


Quote:
but since they apparentley banned the guy (shrugs).
It'd be interesting to see why they banned him.

Quote:
What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?
It's designed to make life difficult for people after gaining a GCC timer, and to give people the opportunity to shoot at others who can't escape by virtue of being prevented from warping by Concord.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#36 - 2015-01-18 11:22:43 UTC
Since you all can't find the source, I thought I might post it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2sgqgt/breaking_news_bowhead_hyperdunking_scandal/

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-01-18 11:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Since you all can't find the source, I thought I might post it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2sgqgt/breaking_news_bowhead_hyperdunking_scandal/
Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#38 - 2015-01-18 11:43:43 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:

Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod.



That is interesting. Given in the Original exploit notifacation no mention of it only applying whilst in a ship. Looks like a small oversight when they patched the exploit out.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2015-01-18 11:45:16 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Since you all can't find the source, I thought I might post it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2sgqgt/breaking_news_bowhead_hyperdunking_scandal/
Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod.


Looks to be the case.

This is why we want hard rules not grey ones.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-01-18 11:50:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Since you all can't find the source, I thought I might post it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2sgqgt/breaking_news_bowhead_hyperdunking_scandal/
Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod.


Looks to be the case.

This is why we want hard rules not grey ones.
Agreed, without any indication of where the grey areas begin it's getting pretty hard to create innovative gameplay without incurring the ban hammer.

So much for CCPs reputation of embracing emergent gameplay.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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