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Awoxing is no more

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Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#601 - 2015-01-18 03:13:20 UTC
I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#602 - 2015-01-18 03:16:33 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.

They feel entitled to be catered to despite buying a product that was never meant for them, simply because they paid money for it. Ever seen someone try to get a whole bunch of unreasonable substitutions at a restaurant? It's like that.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Vector Symian
0 Fear
#603 - 2015-01-18 03:17:35 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.


Anything social in origin draws the trolls, games are no different
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#604 - 2015-01-18 03:21:18 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.

They feel entitled to be catered to despite buying a product that was never meant for them, simply because they paid money for it. Ever seen someone try to get a whole bunch of unreasonable substitutions at a restaurant? It's like that.


I've been a waiter for someone looking to sub out a basic side item for a luxury glass of alcohol. Gotta say it is a bit different though. In a restaurant it's someone trying to avoid spending money. Here, it's someone who has already spent money and then begging that the thing they spend money on do something different. It's like someone bought a pair of shoes and bitches that it isn't a shirt.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#605 - 2015-01-18 03:23:21 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.


There will always be people who want to have their misuse of a product catered to.

In real life, they are slapped down for behaving so childishly, so they come onto a video game to cry about how their every need should be met and if that doesn't happen, they turn the game's forums into a shitstorm of unreasoning, illegitimate negative feedback.

And all because they refuse to admit that they're playing the wrong game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#606 - 2015-01-18 03:25:14 UTC
Vector Symian wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.


Anything social in origin draws the trolls, games are no different


I honestly don't know what you are trying to say here.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#607 - 2015-01-18 03:28:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.


There will always be people who want to have their misuse of a product catered to.

In real life, they are slapped down for behaving so childishly, so they come onto a video game to cry about how their every need should be met and if that doesn't happen, they turn the game's forums into a shitstorm of unreasoning, illegitimate negative feedback.

And all because they refuse to admit that they're playing the wrong game.


Not empty quoting.

Also, hoping you're handling your personal tradgedy alright. If you'd like someone to talk to, hit me up. Groovey?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#608 - 2015-01-18 03:33:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


In real life, they are slapped down for behaving so childishly, so they come onto a video game to cry about how their every need should be met and if that doesn't happen, they turn the game's forums into a shitstorm of unreasoning, illegitimate negative feedback.

Agreed.

And you and Destiny are leading the charge as usual when you feel you are not getting your way. I've seen some serious whining from you, but this thread is awash in your strangely extra tasty tears of entitlement.

Mr Epeen Cool
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#609 - 2015-01-18 03:35:26 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


In real life, they are slapped down for behaving so childishly, so they come onto a video game to cry about how their every need should be met and if that doesn't happen, they turn the game's forums into a shitstorm of unreasoning, illegitimate negative feedback.

Agreed.

And you and Destiny are leading the charge as usual when you feel you are not getting your way. I've seen some serious whining from you, but this thread is awash in your strangely extra tasty tears of entitlement.

Mr Epeen Cool

I also agree. Only the "other side" should be allowed to "lead charges" against anything.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#610 - 2015-01-18 03:40:06 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


In real life, they are slapped down for behaving so childishly, so they come onto a video game to cry about how their every need should be met and if that doesn't happen, they turn the game's forums into a shitstorm of unreasoning, illegitimate negative feedback.

Agreed.

And you and Destiny are leading the charge as usual when you feel you are not getting your way. I've seen some serious whining from you, but this thread is awash in your strangely extra tasty tears of entitlement.

Mr Epeen Cool

I also agree. Only the "other side" should be allowed to "lead charges" against anything.


Don't expect any consistency from that hypocrite.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#611 - 2015-01-18 03:52:12 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Quote:

But tell me again why tear harvesting is a desirable game feature? If someone enjoys carebearing, why is it important to ruin that enjoyment? Is the pleasure a ganker gets from the tears something worth nurturing and cherishing?


THERE it is. If you talk to someone long enough, the underlying thinking and motivation will show up.

EVE mimics real life in that it doesn't matter what you 'want', it matters what you can ENFORCE. I enjoy 'carebearing' I play multiple types of PVE (missions, incursions, 0.0 ratting and plexing, lvl 5 missions and other things, hell i used to farm COSMOS sites). I do these things despite the fact that people want to make my ships explode. For the REAL EVE PVE player, learning how to keep people from making you explode while you gather riches Indiana Jones Styles IS the game.
 They are free to come at me (bro), i am free to PVE while dodging them and still make isk.

The fact that some dude wants to come in to EVE and ignore everyone else while also having an affect on everyone else (every unit of ore they mine lessens the value of everyone else's ore) doesn't mean the game works that way. The thing that i despise about such people is that rather than learn how to exist in the current system, they try to 'metagame' CCP into eliminating opposing playstyles. That's weak. I don't need CCP to beat gankers and Awoxxers for me, I do that on my own all day.

While you may not realize it, what you just asked was "Why is FREEDOM in a sandbox game a desirable game feature?".


Wrong, it isn't my thinking, it was the motive for awoxing that you brought up. I asked why does that motive deserve cherishing in your opinion. Is it good for marketing? Is this how EVE grows? This is what you avoided answering, instead going on a pointless tangent on your PVE.



This is an example of a person who is focused on what other people do. I don't, I can't control what other people do, I think 1st of what I am doing. I didn't avoid answering anything, I'm point blank telling you that the problem is your victim worldview, not any problem with the 'motive' of 'bad guys'.

This is probably why you can't understand what I'm posting. The 'motive' for awoxxing (or scamming or ganking etc) is irrelevant, what matters is what a player choses for himself, Space-Indiana Jones or whiney video game victim. And yes it's the exact same in real life, you can whine about every little perceived injustice or you can get on with life.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#612 - 2015-01-18 04:11:04 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If a CONCORD tax was proposed as a counterbalance to the increased safety afforded by this feature, we would be having a different discussion right now. Granted, we'd still be arguing against the proposal, but it would be different. However, we all know that no such thing is on the table, and that this is a flat removal.


[Citation Needed]

All I heard was a statement that a future feature was going to be the ability to turn off friendly fire. There was no more detail about it than that, especially no statement that there would not be any charges involved with turning this feature on.

If the feature is introduced without a tax or a monthly charge, I will be upset about that. I certainly won't be upset about the reduced opportunities to infiltrate a corp for the sake of griefing people out of the game.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#613 - 2015-01-18 04:14:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is probably why you can't understand what I'm posting. The 'motive' for awoxxing (or scamming or ganking etc) is irrelevant, what matters is what a player choses for himself, Space-Indiana Jones or whiney video game victim. And yes it's the exact same in real life, you can whine about every little perceived injustice or you can get on with life.


Or you can lobby to have the rules changed. Or you can run for office and change the rules. Or you can be a fabulously wealthy person who donates to the major political parties so the rules get waived for you and you walk away from a drink driving manslaughter charge with a few days community service.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#614 - 2015-01-18 04:18:49 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is probably why you can't understand what I'm posting. The 'motive' for awoxxing (or scamming or ganking etc) is irrelevant, what matters is what a player choses for himself, Space-Indiana Jones or whiney video game victim. And yes it's the exact same in real life, you can whine about every little perceived injustice or you can get on with life.


Or you can lobby to have the rules changed. Or you can run for office and change the rules. Or you can be a fabulously wealthy person who donates to the major political parties so the rules get waived for you and you walk away from a drink driving manslaughter charge with a few days community service.



And then there are the people who are sick and tired of freaking activists, tired of the agitating, and just want to play the freaking game by the rules we all agreed to.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#615 - 2015-01-18 04:28:12 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If a CONCORD tax was proposed as a counterbalance to the increased safety afforded by this feature, we would be having a different discussion right now. Granted, we'd still be arguing against the proposal, but it would be different. However, we all know that no such thing is on the table, and that this is a flat removal.


[Citation Needed]

All I heard was a statement that a future feature was going to be the ability to turn off friendly fire. There was no more detail about it than that, especially no statement that there would not be any charges involved with turning this feature on.

If the feature is introduced without a tax or a monthly charge, I will be upset about that. I certainly won't be upset about the reduced opportunities to infiltrate a corp for the sake of griefing people out of the game.

Seriously, don't go for this sort of angle. The "wait and see" approach amounts to stalling for time, and you know this.

You can color me surprised if CCP does implement a tradeoff, but I have over 7 years of empirical evidence (this entire anti-pvp trend began when the Privateer nerf happened) to the contrary. There hasn't been give-and-take so far, so why would there be any now?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#616 - 2015-01-18 04:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You can color me surprised if CCP does implement a tradeoff, but I have over 7 years of empirical evidence (this entire anti-pvp trend began when the Privateer nerf happened) to the contrary. There hasn't been give-and-take so far, so why would there be any now?


Destroyers got buffed.

Oracle, Tornado, Naga, Talos.

Tags for Sec.

Wardec fees proportional to size of target, so small corps can't hope to wardec larger ones.

Yup, absolutely no "give" at all.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#617 - 2015-01-18 04:37:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is probably why you can't understand what I'm posting. The 'motive' for awoxxing (or scamming or ganking etc) is irrelevant, what matters is what a player choses for himself, Space-Indiana Jones or whiney video game victim. And yes it's the exact same in real life, you can whine about every little perceived injustice or you can get on with life.


Or you can lobby to have the rules changed. Or you can run for office and change the rules. Or you can be a fabulously wealthy person who donates to the major political parties so the rules get waived for you and you walk away from a drink driving manslaughter charge with a few days community service.



And then there are the people who are sick and tired of freaking activists, tired of the agitating, and just want to play the freaking game by the rules we all agreed to.


And then there are people who are introduced to one set of rules (no in-corp aggression) and get sick of the rules changing all the time (welcome to our player corp which is better than an NPC corp because we can shoot you).

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#618 - 2015-01-18 04:38:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Mara Rinn wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You can color me surprised if CCP does implement a tradeoff, but I have over 7 years of empirical evidence (this entire anti-pvp trend began when the Privateer nerf happened) to the contrary. There hasn't been give-and-take so far, so why would there be any now?


Destroyers got buffed.

Oracle, Tornado, Naga, Talos.

Tags for Sec.

Yup, absolutely no "give" at all.

Destroyers got buffed because they were useless as a ship class. Tier 3 battlecruisers were released as a new ship class with no expressly-stated intent to be ships used solely for pvp. Neither of those changes were created for the sole benefit of pvpers in mind; it just so happened that pvpers took advantage of these features.

The tags-for-sec thing is the only valid example you've made. And even then, it's a fringe mechanic that's almost useless for high-sec pvpers, because the gankers are usually constantly -10 anyway (there's no sense in buying your sec back up if you're going to lose it all immediately), and the warriors don't lose sec to begin with. So yes, while it's a pvp benefit, it's an extremely minor one. Go ahead and name some others.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#619 - 2015-01-18 04:39:29 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Seriously, don't go for this sort of angle. The "wait and see" approach amounts to stalling for time, and you know this.


Whining on the forums has exactly the same effect as "wait and see".

How about talking to CSM and asking for them to lobby CCP to clarify whether there will in fact be taxes or rates for use of the "FFA" toggle?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#620 - 2015-01-18 04:42:34 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:

Wardec fees proportional to size of target, so small corps can't hope to wardec larger ones.



That's not a buff. Oh, and when wardecs aren't completely optional, then it might make some difference.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.