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Ishukone-Raata Release [I-RED]: "Black Rise Stability Initiative"

Author
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#21 - 2015-01-17 12:26:09 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I'm eagerly awaiting news on how the stability part of this initiative is to be delivered.War zone systems change hands with mind gnawing regularity, and whilst the addition of a few more State aligned pilots is nothing to sneer at, and whilst every shattered FDU hull is to be cheered, neither contesting systems nor hulling bad guys will bring stability.

Even economic renewal is a bit of an own goal if your trade hub station flips.


Well it's a good thing then that the trading hubs are all in bordering non-contested systems, isn't it?
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#22 - 2015-01-17 16:17:53 UTC
As one of the most war-torn areas in Black Rise, Aokinen constellation needs all the help it can get.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#23 - 2015-01-17 16:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
So first it's, "economic stimulus in contested systems is pointless because they flip regularly."

Now it's, "economic stimulus in non-contested systems is pointless because the constellation is not directly in the warzone."


Your agenda is showing.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#24 - 2015-01-17 17:42:54 UTC
These are your choice of words. Please try to keep your personal grudges out of this otherwise fruitful discussion.


"Aokinen needs all the help it can get" was said provocatively, because I do not think Black Rise will be controlled from there.

In comparison with the Intaki market, for example, the markets in Aokinen have been established right at the beginning of the conflict and developed over the years. I know this, because I've been part of it directly as supplier and then user, and indirectly, as owner of suppliers. The fate of war-zone systems was never linked to any scarcity in these markets as at the best of times, they were rivaling Jita prices for the most commonly used goods, and at worst were subject to selected manipulation of select items in order to attain higher profits, which this endeavour is mostly all about. Slightly bloated prices ahve been referred to me by individuals as "taxing LP".

What has a direct impact on the combat readiness of pilots is ship availability close to key systems, especially staging/station systems that are worth defending. Nennamaila can be namedropped in this regard. Staging from high-sec has never been a good move used by any group I've seen as the entrances are routinely blockaded.

As all this is hardly rocket science the question regarding stability can be legitimately asked. What kind of stability are we speaking here? A stable SCC market has been there from the beginning, although it can always benefit from expansion. Investing capital into this is a sound business proposition and will most likely lead to attractive returns of investment.

Over the course of this thread it has moved from talking markets to talking 'security' and other fancy buzzwords provided by third parties, which has spawned the question that was asked by Pieter Tuulinen.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#25 - 2015-01-17 18:35:46 UTC
As proven with Ishukone's policies in regards to business with the Intaki people, contested states of systems in the militia conflict have little effect on economic stability and growth.

Inquiring individuals will just have to wait for the initiative to mature to see exactly the type of stability we wish to bring to the region.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2015-01-17 20:30:51 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
As proven with Ishukone's policies in regards to business with the Intaki people, contested states of systems in the militia conflict have little effect on economic stability and growth.

Inquiring individuals will just have to wait for the initiative to mature to see exactly the type of stability we wish to bring to the region.


Secrets? Fair enough. I'll continue to wait and watch and wonder, then. Although it should be noted that while Ishukone certainly profited from its flexible attitude regarding managing the trade in the Intaki system, and whilst that stance certainly proved to be FAR more productive than any approach that demanded the system be in the hands of the State, it's more difficult to see how this benefited stability within the contested zone.

Note that I am NOT one of these economic heretics who would claim that a profit for ones home corporation is not an end in and of itself. I would also argue that if the profits from the Intaki system have directly aided Ishukone with raising the capital to leverage its buyout of districts on the Homeworld then what has been good for Ishukone has been of direct benefit to every single citizen of the State - and that we do owe Ishukone no small measure of thanks and respect for its achievements in that arena.

That said - you have to expect combat pilots to be wary of anyone who ascribes lofty goals to an expansion of what is a lucrative market for those who service it. It should be added that market hub logistical routes are all heavily penetrated by false-flag trading companies that directly service the opposing militia, however, and so such expansion generally doesn't benefit one side more than the other. Hence my wariness.

That said, the respect I mentioned earlier has earned Ishukone a lot of leeway when it comes to trust. Let's see what Mama Ishy has dreamt up this time.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#27 - 2015-01-18 00:02:15 UTC
As I enjoy projects that benefit the greater whole of the State & it's citizens, I do support what I-RED attempts to do in Black Rise, stabilizing it's economy & providing additional security where they can.

I've visited the trio of systems selected for this economic stimulus package, and was pleasantly surprised to see a healthy market targeting militia members.

After asking additional info from I-RED representatives & investigating deeper into the BRSI project and the possibly upcoming Free Trade Zone initiative, I decided on publishing a report, to spread the good news about this!

Ishukone-Raata boosts Black Rise economy

All in all, keep up the good work I-RED!

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#28 - 2015-01-18 01:31:20 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Secrets? Fair enough. I'll continue to wait and watch and wonder, then. Although it should be noted that while Ishukone certainly profited from its flexible attitude regarding managing the trade in the Intaki system, and whilst that stance certainly proved to be FAR more productive than any approach that demanded the system be in the hands of the State, it's more difficult to see how this benefited stability within the contested zone.

Note that I am NOT one of these economic heretics who would claim that a profit for ones home corporation is not an end in and of itself. I would also argue that if the profits from the Intaki system have directly aided Ishukone with raising the capital to leverage its buyout of districts on the Homeworld then what has been good for Ishukone has been of direct benefit to every single citizen of the State - and that we do owe Ishukone no small measure of thanks and respect for its achievements in that arena.

That said - you have to expect combat pilots to be wary of anyone who ascribes lofty goals to an expansion of what is a lucrative market for those who service it. It should be added that market hub logistical routes are all heavily penetrated by false-flag trading companies that directly service the opposing militia, however, and so such expansion generally doesn't benefit one side more than the other. Hence my wariness.

That said, the respect I mentioned earlier has earned Ishukone a lot of leeway when it comes to trust. Let's see what Mama Ishy has dreamt up this time.


Ishukone-Raata has been conducting development projects since our foundation, often under the direction and policies employed by Ishukone. During the height of the Intaki development, we acted as an administrator in cooperation with groups like the Intaki Liberation Front. How did we bring stability? We installed infrastructure, lines of communication, we deployed assets and security personnel with allies to aid in combating the local pirate threat both planetside and in the trade-lanes. We expanded upon the same blueprint in Syndicate to a even greater success. We will adapt the same strategy to our BRSI efforts. It isn't perfect, it isn't easy but it is better then the alternative.. doing nothing.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2015-01-18 02:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Well, it certainly sounds promising - although I would mention that the three highsec trade hubs in that area have ALWAYS been Ichoriya, Onamon and Samanuni, so this hardly represents a dramatic shift in the economic foundations of the war in Black Rise.

In addition to this, as my better half pointed out, fighting from, let's say, Ichoriya as a jumping off point into the warzone proper is a definitely second-best way of prosecuting war patrols, as your points of ingress and egress are bottlenecks that are guarded heavily. You need a Forward Operating Base such as Enaluri before you can really conduct strikes without the kind of punitive losses my analysts are telling me that you've been suffering. Once again, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything that you haven't already worked out.

Given that the majority of Black Rise is languishing under Federation occupation, on second thoughts, perhaps stability shouldn't be our goal. Perhaps you guys ought to be the change we need to believe in.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2015-01-18 02:15:29 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
So first it's, "economic stimulus in contested systems is pointless because they flip regularly."

Now it's, "economic stimulus in non-contested systems is pointless because the constellation is not directly in the warzone."


Your agenda is showing.



And you ought to be kinder to the people minding the store while you go on your little vacatiion. Ushra K'han are back and they've sent their regards. I'm sure they'd far rather have found you waiting for them than us.

Now let's all be a little nicer to one another, shall we?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#31 - 2015-01-18 02:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: John Revenent
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Well, it certainly sounds promising - although I would mention that the three highsec trade hubs in that area have ALWAYS been Ichoriya, Onamon and Samanuni, so this hardly represents a dramatic shift in the economic foundations of the war in Black Rise.

In addition to this, as my better half pointed out, fighting from, let's say, Ichoriya as a jumping off point into the warzone proper is a definitely second-best way of prosecuting war patrols, as your points of ingress and egress are bottlenecks that are guarded heavily. You need a Forward Operating Base such as Enaluri before you can really conduct strikes without the kind of punitive losses my analysts are telling me that you've been suffering. Once again, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything that you haven't already worked out.

Given that the majority of Black Rise is languishing under Federation occupation, on second thoughts, perhaps stability shouldn't be our goal. Perhaps you guys ought to be the change we need to believe in.


Thank you for pointing out the obvious on where the foundations of the economy in the Black Rise region are. But I do believe you are presuming a little to much, or somehow think the linchpin of our operations for this initiative revolve around those three systems, or even revolves around the militia conflict.. As stated before, this is simply the beginning stage of the BRSI.

As for your suggestion, it has been noted.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2015-01-18 03:38:18 UTC
I've tried wordy, so now I'll try laconic.

Plans for Black Rise that don't involve the Militia Conflict are like plans for burning buildings that don't involve the fire.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#33 - 2015-01-18 03:59:37 UTC
I appreciate your words of wisdom Tuulinen.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#34 - 2015-01-18 04:17:28 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Plans for Black Rise that don't involve the Militia Conflict are like plans for burning buildings that don't involve the fire.


Metaphors that don't make sense are like indicator permanent apples mythifying.

Katrina Oniseki

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2015-01-18 04:18:40 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Plans for Black Rise that don't involve the Militia Conflict are like plans for burning buildings that don't involve the fire.


Metaphors that don't make sense are like indicator permanent apples mythifying.


If the Metaphor makes no sense, only in one scenario is the metaphor at fault.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#36 - 2015-01-18 08:39:18 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
And you ought to be kinder to the people minding the store while you go on your little vacatiion.


At this point I'd rather lose the store than allow demons to continue profiting off of it.

Quote:
Plans for Black Rise that don't involve the Militia Conflict are like plans for burning buildings that don't involve the fire.


If the fire can't be stopped, you have to look for other ways of minimizing the damage it causes.
Jurou Yuan
Wolfraam 74
#37 - 2015-01-18 09:32:44 UTC
An investment of pocket change over six months and a rabble of people to accomplish what I did for well over 12 months on my own is apparently worthy of a announcement these days. Oh Black Rise, what has my jewel become in my absence?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2015-01-18 09:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Samira Kernher wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
And you ought to be kinder to the people minding the store while you go on your little vacatiion.


At this point I'd rather lose the store than allow demons to continue profiting off of it.


It's only when we've gained things by dubious means that we really, truly, understand how having them can make us feel uncomfortable, huh? Mind you, all those souls that can be saved now, eh? One would imagine you'd be frantically attempting to hold the line at this point - especially as companies like ours have little to no vested interest in what happens groundside in our deployment area.

Quote:
Plans for Black Rise that don't involve the Militia Conflict are like plans for burning buildings that don't involve the fire.


Samira Kernher wrote:
If the fire can't be stopped, you have to look for other ways of minimizing the damage it causes.


And yet, the fire still burns.

Well, Revenent has politely (to his credit) told me that I'll get no more information. I'm not surprised to hear that the solution will lie outside of the arena of fighting the Federation and conquering systems - even the ones that have traditionally been Caldari - since you and I know the amount of work involved in that.

I suppose I'll just have to wait and see what this magic solution is.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#39 - 2015-01-18 10:01:19 UTC
For the sake of avoiding dragging this thread down into further pointless argument, I will have nothing more to say with you here, Pieter.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#40 - 2015-01-18 10:31:01 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
And you ought to be kinder to the people minding the store while you go on your little vacatiion.


At this point I'd rather lose the store than allow demons to continue profiting off of it.



There are no demons, only people. If you see the demons, not the people then I feel sorry for you. Samira, if you ever want to talk, and see for yourself there are no demons, I will be available to avail your concerns anytime I am in space.

As to the main point, all economic activity is good activity, I hope this brings more development to Black Rise.
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