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how to fit hurricane for solopew now?
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Valkin Mordirc
#21 - 2015-01-17 21:32:52 UTC
Joe Starbreaker wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Honestly, the best arty cane fit is hull fit.
...
Course, with no hull logi, not good for fleets.


Has hull tanking really become a thing?



Recently with the new updates, the Reinforced Bulkheads now limit cargo space, rather then mobility like they have before. Which makes Hulltanking extremely more usefull then before as you maintain speed and agility. The downside to hulltanking is the flat 60% resist you can only get from a DCUII and Hull Logi is hilariously bad. As is the Local hull rep,


However yes, I have a Hull Tanked Mega that sits around 250k (ish) EHP. So thats a pretty decent tank, it also works well with station baiting while suspect in highsec as alot of people will see a battleship in structure and shoot at you. Most of time not thinking that you have the majority of your tank still waiting to be riddled down,

Overall Hull tanking isn't better then Armor or Shield. But it has a niche role that actually makes it a funny/interesting. 
#DeleteTheWeak
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-01-17 22:54:41 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
comparable? Not even close. 33km is where the cane starts to lose a lot of damage in falloff, 33km in the ferox is barely the START of falloff in the ferox.

Changing up the ammo makes absolutely 0 difference as it drops the dps to almost tremor level anyway with mid range RF ammo.

Cap stable? Who cares about cap stable? Something you're kiting away in a fleet isn't going to last more than 2 minutes before they get to you anyway and if you're planning on shooting for longer than 2 minutes it's very likely you won't be moving.

so no, dps/application is not superior at all. Mobility yes, but that's fairly moot for a sniping setup and damage type matters very little in most pvp situations.

And I like how you've just completely ignored the lock range part.


Tremor has about 1/5th the tracking of mid range ammo, it seems as if you're just looking at paper dps. And yes the graphs ARE pretty similar if you swap ammo a bit, Rails are on top but being able to select damage type really does help, stating that it doesn't is just hilarious nonsense and a clear sign of "all I understand is blob tactics". Same for the "mobility isn't important". I'm not saying the Cane is brilliant, it's not and for a very good reason, but the whole "woe is me rails rail RAAAIIILLSS" just isn't true.

So either you have no clue, OR the only clue you have is blob warfare OR you're lying trying to create a biased situation, frantically screaming for a cane buff.



using short range ammo, ferox is superior at any range compared to the cane. Using long range ammo, same story. Medium, same story.

Tracking will hardly matter if you're at optimals for spike, however tremor only has an optimal of 65km and stuff can probably pull enough transversal to dodge artillery.

Damage type doesn't matter because:

A: projectile ammo is mixed anyway
B: therm/kinetic are baseline mid range resists for all ships apart from t2 caldari ones.

As for mobility: the ferox actually aligns faster and 200m/s is not going to matter for a sniping fit.

Still this discussion is pointless since we're not talking about solo fits. The solo cane with a MJD just doesn't work.

Art of Explosions
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#23 - 2015-01-17 23:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
using short range ammo, ferox is superior at any range compared to the cane. Using long range ammo, same story. Medium, same story.

Tracking will hardly matter if you're at optimals for spike, however tremor only has an optimal of 65km and stuff can probably pull enough transversal to dodge artillery.

Damage type doesn't matter because:

A: projectile ammo is mixed anyway
B: therm/kinetic are baseline mid range resists for all ships apart from t2 caldari ones.

As for mobility: the ferox actually aligns faster and 200m/s is not going to matter for a sniping fit.

Still this discussion is pointless since we're not talking about solo fits. The solo cane with a MJD just doesn't work.



- It's a fleet fit, volley is more important than dps. Have a bunch of them and you clear a target every 8 seconds.
- wait so "tracking doesn't matter" but also "stuff will dodge arty", so which of the two is it. Those 720 and 250mm in those fits have the same base tracking, stop bringing Tremor into this whole thing; it has no place on fits like these
- hybrids are pretty even kin/therm, saying that projectile ammo is "a mix" is hilarious, it's 80% pure damage types and I'd rather fire 80% EM or explosion at, say, Ishtars than lol kin/therm. So yeah, keep at it
- yeah, gallente aren't at all... wait, no
- if you feel that 200m/s isn't important then I'm sure you won't mind if they nerf the Cane speed?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#24 - 2015-01-17 23:39:20 UTC
Joe Starbreaker wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Honestly, the best arty cane fit is hull fit.
...
Course, with no hull logi, not good for fleets.


Has hull tanking really become a thing?


It's a gimmick that works on some high hull ships, mostly Gallente ones. The main upside is that increasing hull EHP doesn't affect your mobility as armour ehp does (plates and trimarks) and that you aren't weak to any specific damage type.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-01-17 23:46:32 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
using short range ammo, ferox is superior at any range compared to the cane. Using long range ammo, same story. Medium, same story.

Tracking will hardly matter if you're at optimals for spike, however tremor only has an optimal of 65km and stuff can probably pull enough transversal to dodge artillery.

Damage type doesn't matter because:

A: projectile ammo is mixed anyway
B: therm/kinetic are baseline mid range resists for all ships apart from t2 caldari ones.

As for mobility: the ferox actually aligns faster and 200m/s is not going to matter for a sniping fit.

Still this discussion is pointless since we're not talking about solo fits. The solo cane with a MJD just doesn't work.



- It's a fleet fit, volley is more important than dps. Have a bunch of them and you clear a target every 8 seconds.
- wait so "tracking doesn't matter" but also "stuff will dodge arty", so which of the two is it. Those 720 and 250mm in those fits have the same base tracking, stop bringing Tremor into this whole thing; it has no place on fits like these
- hybrids are pretty even kin/therm, saying that projectile ammo is "a mix" is hilarious, it's 80% pure damage types and I'd rather fire 80% EM or explosion at, say, Ishtars than lol kin/therm. So yeah, keep at it
- yeah, gallente aren't at all... wait, no
- if you feel that 200m/s isn't important then I'm sure you won't mind if they nerf the Cane speed?



As it takes over 8 seconds for logi to lock and start repping someone, rails shoot almost 3 times in one arty cycle. So yeah rails win out in that as well.

You really like to respond to quotes taking out of context don't you? I said tracking won't matter to rails and spike as it can shoot from further away, therefore less transversal to deal with.

Projectile can choose damage type yes, however as we've established, it doesn't have the projection and raw dps compared to rails and it is balanced in that regard. However rails still win out in range so there's no good reason to use a cane over a ferox for sniping.

Not sure what your "gallente aren't all" comment is referring to.

200m/s is very unimportant for sniping ships yes. The cane is not a sniping ship.

Art of Explosions
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#26 - 2015-01-17 23:58:03 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
As it takes over 8 seconds for logi to lock and start repping someone, rails shoot almost 3 times in one arty cycle. So yeah rails win out in that as well.

You really like to respond to quotes taking out of context don't you? I said tracking won't matter to rails and spike as it can shoot from further away, therefore less transversal to deal with.

Projectile can choose damage type yes, however as we've established, it doesn't have the projection and raw dps compared to rails and it is balanced in that regard. However rails still win out in range so there's no good reason to use a cane over a ferox for sniping.

Not sure what your "gallente aren't all" comment is referring to.

200m/s is very unimportant for sniping ships yes. The cane is not a sniping ship.


- I don't know what kind of **** blob fleets you're used to but in smaller engagements that's just a silly statement. Also "aaand it's gone!" is always better than dps. Denying this is denying a meta that's been prevalent for a long time
- why the **** would you bring spike and tremor into discussions about ships that can't hit outside 60-80? it seems as if you have no notion of their tracking penalties (or simply don't know how important tracking is)
- what, you mean to say that it's... kinda balanced in normal situation? WHO KNEW! Still, if you enjoy shooting therm/kin at lol ishtars, harpies, deimoses and whatnot then be my guest
- the comment is about how you lol statement is that "kin/therm is only a problem against caldari", which is of course hilariously mistaken especially so since Gallente are pretty good atm


You can make a perfectly fine EHP cane with scram, web, MWD, MJD and med neut that works FINE for a solo CBC ship. It won't be the best at it but it's certainly not crap. The issue is that people don't understand the current CBC, it doesn't fit in their kite/blob/ermagerd K:D mentality, that or people are just clowns who want their old lol BC back.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-01-18 00:16:47 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
As it takes over 8 seconds for logi to lock and start repping someone, rails shoot almost 3 times in one arty cycle. So yeah rails win out in that as well.

You really like to respond to quotes taking out of context don't you? I said tracking won't matter to rails and spike as it can shoot from further away, therefore less transversal to deal with.

Projectile can choose damage type yes, however as we've established, it doesn't have the projection and raw dps compared to rails and it is balanced in that regard. However rails still win out in range so there's no good reason to use a cane over a ferox for sniping.

Not sure what your "gallente aren't all" comment is referring to.

200m/s is very unimportant for sniping ships yes. The cane is not a sniping ship.


- I don't know what kind of **** blob fleets you're used to but in smaller engagements that's just a silly statement. Also "aaand it's gone!" is always better than dps. Denying this is denying a meta that's been prevalent for a long time
- why the **** would you bring spike and tremor into discussions about ships that can't hit outside 60-80? it seems as if you have no notion of their tracking penalties (or simply don't know how important tracking is)
- what, you mean to say that it's... kinda balanced in normal situation? WHO KNEW! Still, if you enjoy shooting therm/kin at lol ishtars, harpies, deimoses and whatnot then be my guest
- the comment is about how you lol statement is that "kin/therm is only a problem against caldari", which is of course hilariously mistaken especially so since Gallente are pretty good atm


You can make a perfectly fine EHP cane with scram, web, MWD, MJD and med neut that works FINE for a solo CBC ship. It won't be the best at it but it's certainly not crap. The issue is that people don't understand the current CBC, it doesn't fit in their kite/blob/ermagerd K:D mentality, that or people are just clowns who want their old lol BC back.


Please give reasons why, not just denounce my comments. Makes you look like you might have a point if you do that.

Ferox can lock to 82.5km, cane 62.5km. So yes spike and tremor are relevant especially when transversal velocity gets lower the further you are away from a target. Seems like you might need a refresher on tracking, not me.

So hybrids have ships they're not great against due to resist profiles, woooo who knew? Let's talk about all the ships that can counter artillery in extremely specific situations as well shall we?

kin/therm is only a problem against certain ships of the caldari lineup and certain ones in the gallente one. Just as projectiles are counted by certain ships from other races too.

Art of Explosions
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#28 - 2015-01-18 01:18:33 UTC
Not much to discuss if you don't want to admit that volley damage is very useful in fleets. If that needs explaining then uhm, yeah

you get fairly similar projected dps from faction ammo compared to T2 range ammo and the ranges these ships operate, minus the tracking issues (and in case of projectiles limited damage type selection)

why are you countering "hybrids have fixed damage types that'll suck against the most used t2/t3 ships" with "oh yeah, how about arties huh!". Explain how that makes sense and how you "counter arties" in this regard



It's really as if you're trying your utter best to convince people that Minnie is **** and needs massive buffs, and instead of using rational logic for you it you just start frothing at the mouth.
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