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Awoxing is no more

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#541 - 2015-01-17 12:55:34 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Gank is unavoidable.


there have literally been hundreds of threads, over the course of the last few months, if not years, where people illustrate in detail how to avoid being ganked.

**** i'm pretty sure tmc even wrote a whole article just for that one point.

edit: Here it is.


You can't teach pigs to fish, Dave.

You can give him a fishing hat, and a fishing pole. But he'll never be a real fisherman, no matter how he might look like one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#542 - 2015-01-17 12:57:02 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Gank is unavoidable. Unless you mean logoffski because one of your 25 scouts has found a gank team ahead. Which is hardly avoiding, since you're not going anywhere.

Or local. Warping away from the scout sat on your face is hard.

Quote:
Grief dec is unavoidable by means other than going over tremendous PITA of losing rented offices, dismounting POS and mounting it again, dropping roles in 24 hours and setting them again, populating new corp hangars in new corp, etc.

Or you could fight them. You know, seeing as this is a PvP game and that war dec is a mechanic that allows one group to fight another in HiSec.

Or you could realise you're a bad CEO and disband your corp, alternatively, join a jorp run by more competent pilots.

Quote:
Awoxing is unavoidable because gank is unavoidable, and it's basically a free gank.

Checking killboards and APIs is hard. Flying modest fit ships is hard. Providing SRP for the once-in-a-blue-moon awox is hard. PvP is hard. Kicking people from corp is hard.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#543 - 2015-01-17 12:59:53 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Gank is unavoidable.


there have literally been hundreds of threads, over the course of the last few months, if not years, where people illustrate in detail how to avoid being ganked.

**** i'm pretty sure tmc even wrote a whole article just for that one point.

edit: Here it is.


STEP 1: USE A SCOUT
So what if I find a gank ahead? There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

STEP 2: PLAN YOUR TRIP
There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

STEP 3: TANK YOUR SHIP
Maximum tank just raises the bar a little tiny bit. It haven't stopped anyone yet.

STEP 4: USE A WEBBER
Requires an alt, doesn't stop ganks, just makes bump timing a bit more difficult, but nowhere near hard. And people can just pop your webber, it's not hard either.

STEP 5: STAY COOL
Yeah, they only popped everything you worked for a year to get while doing harlem shake, big deal...


Been discussed a ton of times. The only way to avoid a gank is to never undock.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#544 - 2015-01-17 13:01:54 UTC
And yet I literally went through Uedama with a hauler alt last week. And somehow I lived.

Oh, but then I'm a real player. That might make a difference.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#545 - 2015-01-17 13:04:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And yet I literally went through Uedama with a hauler alt last week. And somehow I lived.

Oh, but then I'm a real player. That might make a difference.


Or the gank squad were too lazy to drop on you. This system has the capacity to burn everyone passing it, so don't be mistaken, when you succeed with a hauler in it, it's either laziness or luck, it doesn't depend on what you did one bit.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dave Stark
#546 - 2015-01-17 13:05:12 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Gank is unavoidable.


there have literally been hundreds of threads, over the course of the last few months, if not years, where people illustrate in detail how to avoid being ganked.

**** i'm pretty sure tmc even wrote a whole article just for that one point.

edit: Here it is.


STEP 1: USE A SCOUT
So what if I find a gank ahead? There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

STEP 2: PLAN YOUR TRIP
There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

STEP 3: TANK YOUR SHIP
Maximum tank just raises the bar a little tiny bit. It haven't stopped anyone yet.

STEP 4: USE A WEBBER
Requires an alt, doesn't stop ganks, just makes bump timing a bit more difficult, but nowhere near hard. And people can just pop your webber, it's not hard either.

STEP 5: STAY COOL
Yeah, they only popped everything you worked for a year to get while doing harlem shake, big deal...


Been discussed a ton of times. The only way to avoid a gank is to never undock.


Yes, there is; saying there's no way around it is a complete falsehood.

we've been through this; there is.

if you raise the bar higher than what they're able to bring to gank you; then yes, it does stop people.

yeah it requires an alt, and guess how many alts a gank requires? more than 1.

if you follow the first 4 steps, no they haven't.

yep, just looks like a pig with a fishing rod....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#547 - 2015-01-17 13:08:32 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Or the gank squad were too lazy to drop on you.


You said it was never avoidable.


Quote:

This system has the capacity to burn everyone passing it, so don't be mistaken, when you succeed with a hauler in it, it's either laziness or luck, it doesn't depend on what you did one bit.


Yeah, that's not even remotely true. They're lucky if they can interdict 10% of the traffic through that system.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#548 - 2015-01-17 13:09:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Basil Pupkin wrote:
STEP 1: USE A SCOUT
So what if I find a gank ahead? There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

There is another high-sec way around, but it will take longer. You can also take one of the many low-sec routes availale that are virtually devoid of any player activity. Gank chokepoints aren't always camped anyway.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
STEP 2: PLAN YOUR TRIP
There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

See previous.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
STEP 3: TANK YOUR SHIP
Maximum tank just raises the bar a little tiny bit. It haven't stopped anyone yet.

Going from three expanders to three bulkheads on a freighter increases hull HP by over 280% (3.815x), for a total EHP increase of about 200% (3x). I'm not even going to show the numbers on an Orca with a DCU II, or blockade runner with T2 hardeners.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
STEP 4: USE A WEBBER
Requires an alt, doesn't stop ganks, just makes bump timing a bit more difficult, but nowhere near hard. And people can just pop your webber, it's not hard either.

Ganking requires alts too. Is guaranteed to stop a gank if you lock faster than the gankers (hint: gankers don't fit sebos on their Taloses, and even if they did, your frigate would still do it faster). You can have multiple webbers or friends helping you for redundancy and increased efficiency.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
STEP 5: STAY COOL
Yeah, they only popped everything you worked for a year to get while doing harlem shake, big deal...


Been discussed a ton of times. The only way to avoid a gank is to never undock.

Why did you put a year's worth of assets into the cargohold of a single ship?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#549 - 2015-01-17 13:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiasa Kite
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Here it is.


STEP 1: USE A SCOUT
So what if I find a gank ahead? There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

Actually, there are two basic options. The long HiSec route, which takes you round the HiSec doughnut. The LoSec route, which, with a scout is safer than Uedama + gank gleet.
Quote:
STEP 2: PLAN YOUR TRIP
There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.

Uedama is not camped 23/7.

Quote:
STEP 3: TANK YOUR SHIP
Maximum tank just raises the bar a little tiny bit. It haven't stopped anyone yet.

I have seen preceisely one fully tanked freighter this year that has been suicide ganked. It was carrying an 8 billion ISK cargo.

Quote:
STEP 4: USE A WEBBER
Requires an alt, doesn't stop ganks, just makes bump timing a bit more difficult, but nowhere near hard. And people can just pop your webber, it's not hard either.

Or a friend. Shocking concept that players are expected to befriend and work with each other to achieve goals in a multiplayer game.

"STEP 5: STAY COOL
Yeah, they only popped everything you worked for a year to get while doing harlem shake, big deal..."

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#550 - 2015-01-17 13:10:57 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


Yes, there is; saying there's no way around it is a complete falsehood.

we've been through this; there is.

if you raise the bar higher than what they're able to bring to gank you; then yes, it does stop people.

yeah it requires an alt, and guess how many alts a gank requires? more than 1.

if you follow the first 4 steps, no they haven't.

yep, just looks like a pig with a fishing rod....


It passes Niarja, which is the same as Uedama. In yearly destruction it still beats HED-GP and Asakai combined.
Now try to find the way without Niarja and Uedama. Just try.

We've been through this, there's none.

If I raise the bar, all they need is 4 more catalysts. If they don't have them, you are lucky, but most of the time in the mentioned systems, gankbears are so overstaffed they can gank two freighters at the same time and still have extra for blockade runner.

The problem with webber is not that it reuiqres an alt, more like that it doesn't help at all.

It's completely unavoidable.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dave Stark
#551 - 2015-01-17 13:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Now try to find the way without Niarja and Uedama. Just try.


contract window says hi.

anyway, your inability to play eve really has nothing to do with the topic of awoxing. kindly get back to the topic, or stop derailing the thread.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#552 - 2015-01-17 13:15:05 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

It's completely unavoidable.


And somehow, I've been through there dozens of times, including with a freighter and several faction battleships.

I remain unganked.

That's because, unlike the lie you want to push, it is laughably easy to avoid being ganked. If you're not just pretending to play the game anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#553 - 2015-01-17 13:17:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

It's completely unavoidable.


And somehow, I've been through there dozens of times, including with a freighter and several faction battleships.

I remain unganked.

That's because, unlike the lie you want to push, it is laughably easy to avoid being ganked. If you're not just pretending to play the game anyway.


If you passed without being ganked, it's just luck, not avoidance - somehow you were decided to not get ganked, that's it.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#554 - 2015-01-17 13:18:30 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
If I raise the bar, all they need is 4 more catalysts. If they don't have them, you are lucky, but most of the time in the mentioned systems, gankbears are so overstaffed they can gank two freighters at the same time and still have extra for blockade runner.

The game is not fair. Everything is stacked against me. No matter what I try, I lose. It's literally impossible to succeed.

Here's a suggestion: Drop the defeatist attitude. Despite all your claims about how absurdly powerful freighter ganking is, the fact is that the game has a fair number of freighter pilots that do succeed in traversing these gank hotspots. In fact, they're so good at it that they're willing to take a freighter through Uedama with a billion ISK cargo for as little as 13 million ISK. Do you honestly think that if these guys had anyhing less than a 99% success rate that they'd be able to charge so little?

Face it. Ganking isn't unfair, you're bad at a game and you refuse to improve because you'd rather believe the game is at fault, not you.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#555 - 2015-01-17 13:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Dave Stark wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Good, now people can finally join corporations which we can then wardec Pirate


which will then be folded and reformed before the war even starts.

so you can war dec them, but you won't get to actually shoot at them (without concord intervention)



That depends, if you tease them by not being a massive corp with tons of people and/or perma camping systems and stations then you can do just fine. Also has to do with a bit of research before deccing. I solo dec with a 2 char corp and some alts and go for medium to larger size corps and (generally) people don't ditch corp because of that very reason, at least not en masse. If you bring a T3/Mach/Vindi fleet then yeah, they'll drop.
Dave Stark
#556 - 2015-01-17 13:28:48 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
If you bring a T3 fleet them yeah, they'll drop.


or if they simply don't want to participate in your war.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#557 - 2015-01-17 13:30:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
If you bring a T3 fleet them yeah, they'll drop.


or if they simply don't want to participate in your war.


Well, I guess I'll stick to doing it wrong™ then :)
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#558 - 2015-01-17 13:36:44 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


Yes, there is; saying there's no way around it is a complete falsehood.

we've been through this; there is.

if you raise the bar higher than what they're able to bring to gank you; then yes, it does stop people.

yeah it requires an alt, and guess how many alts a gank requires? more than 1.

if you follow the first 4 steps, no they haven't.

yep, just looks like a pig with a fishing rod....


It passes Niarja, which is the same as Uedama. In yearly destruction it still beats HED-GP and Asakai combined.
Now try to find the way without Niarja and Uedama. Just try.

We've been through this, there's none.

If I raise the bar, all they need is 4 more catalysts. If they don't have them, you are lucky, but most of the time in the mentioned systems, gankbears are so overstaffed they can gank two freighters at the same time and still have extra for blockade runner.

The problem with webber is not that it reuiqres an alt, more like that it doesn't help at all.

It's completely unavoidable.


Yes there is.

Flying with sense / using low-sec.

I've been flying freighters around on my alt for years...yet have to lose the first one...

This included:

Niarja trips
Uedama trips
lots of low-sec trips.

But with scouts, webbers and friends (go logi, go) you are quite safe.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Aredontis
Doomheim
#559 - 2015-01-17 16:06:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey, while we're at it, can we patch out the loop hole that allows you to avoid wardecs when otherwise you'd have to pay for a surrender?


This seems to be a recurring theme with you. You complain that a change that affects your play style (negatively) shouldn't be made, while in the same breath, complaining that a change that affects your play style (positively) should be made.
Hypocrite much?
Solecist Project
#560 - 2015-01-17 16:13:32 UTC
Aredontis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey, while we're at it, can we patch out the loop hole that allows you to avoid wardecs when otherwise you'd have to pay for a surrender?


This seems to be a recurring theme with you. You complain that a change that affects your play style (negatively) shouldn't be made, while in the same breath, complaining that a change that affects your play style (positively) should be made.
Hypocrite much?

There's no hypocricy in that, at least not within the current context.

CCP removes a way to kill people from within a corp,
leaving only suicide ganking or wardeccing as options.

As wardeccing is the only legal way to kill people now ...
... it makes sense to remove the ability of people to simply dodge it without any consequences.

Yeah no, the million ISK fee and clicking two buttons isn't really a consequence.


To be fair, I do not know if he does as you say,
but if he does it in light of a nerf like this one, then it's fair.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia