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Awoxing is no more

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#521 - 2015-01-17 12:17:37 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve.

What about dumbmode point-click-dump mining? If we're going to measure the net worth of a gameplay activity by that sort of metric, then...


I can clearly see you've never been to a mining OP.
Solo mining is derp, no argument here.
Mining OPs are very different. At least proper ones are.

I have (do you even know how much of that **** I had to sit through during my infiltrations), and the only difference between solo mining and group mining is that in the case of the latter, people are talking about beer and sports over voip. There's absolutely nothing different mechanically.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#522 - 2015-01-17 12:20:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Silly Destiny, expecting consistency.

Sorry, old habit.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#523 - 2015-01-17 12:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Please note, fellas. This is the same Basil who thinks that there is an imaginary "exploit" involving the attackers in a wardec being allowed to dock while the deck is active.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

So if you're fine with removing awoxing, wardecs are griefing in your eyes, and I know before you've told me that ganking has to go away for good... why the hell do you play this game?


I stated on every page that I'm NOT for removal of awoxing. In fact, on this very page I stated it twice (this is third time).
I also stated every time to you that I'm NOT for removal of war decs. Only grief decs need to be removed, where you dec carefully selected corp with 7 newbies in it just for the griefing.
I have also said a number of times that I'm NOT for removal of ganking. But easymode ganking where every "codeosis" sicko hops into a catalyst and has almost 100% success rate in a free ship - it must go.

I'm for raising a bar on all those activities, so it can't be done while doing harlem shake at your PC.
Mining already has this bar, as solo and afk mining are basically charity in terms of income. Why not those activities also?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#524 - 2015-01-17 12:20:54 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


because botting is illegal, and balancing issues.

neither of those apply to awoxing.


Of course it's a balancing issue.

Anyway, awoxing will be gone so hope you carebears find some other ways to get your kicks.

Dave Stark
#525 - 2015-01-17 12:23:44 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


because botting is illegal, and balancing issues.

neither of those apply to awoxing.


Of course it's a balancing issue.

Anyway, awoxing will be gone so hope you carebears find some other ways to get your kicks.



sure there's a balancing issue with awoxing - it's now neutral logi works not the fact that you can shoot corp members.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#526 - 2015-01-17 12:24:15 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I'm for raising a bar on all those activities, so it can't be done while doing harlem shake at your PC.
Mining already has this bar, as solo and afk mining are basically charity in terms of income. Why not those activities also?

Mining has no such bar, not any more so than ganking. In fact, the profitability of both activities, when both happen at the same time, is roughly equal for all parties involved. You're in favor of raising the bar on pvp activities, but you're not willing to do the same for pve players. That's entitlement.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#527 - 2015-01-17 12:30:06 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I'm for raising a bar on all those activities, so it can't be done while doing harlem shake at your PC.
Mining already has this bar, as solo and afk mining are basically charity in terms of income. Why not those activities also?

Mining has no such bar, not any more so than ganking. In fact, the profitability of both activities, when both happen at the same time, is roughly equal for all parties involved. You're in favor of raising the bar on pvp activities, but you're not willing to do the same for pve players. That's entitlement.


You have no idea about mining clearly.
Income of ganking is hundreds of millions per hour, income of afk mining is 3 mil / hour, income of solo mining is 10 mil / hour at all skills to V.
Gank is free, can be done in 10 hours after making new alt, and first 3 catalysts are provided free of charge by the tutorial
Mining requires barges, logistics, and a bunch of skills to V, and still not profitable.
A properly organized mining OP breaks 30 mil / hour per barge, which is a bar I was talking about - without proper organization, preparation and setup, you are barely making 33% of what you're supposed to make. But there is no such bar in ganking, grief deccing, and awoxing.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#528 - 2015-01-17 12:33:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


because botting is illegal, and balancing issues.

neither of those apply to awoxing.


Of course it's a balancing issue.

Anyway, awoxing will be gone so hope you carebears find some other ways to get your kicks.



sure there's a balancing issue with awoxing - it's now neutral logi works not the fact that you can shoot corp members.


If you couldn't shoot corp members, you couldn't use a neutral logi, so this is the fix. Now your neutral logi shares your criminal flag.

So easiest fix was to remove intra-corp aggression, since removing it had no downsides or ill side effects.
Dave Stark
#529 - 2015-01-17 12:33:53 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
But there is no such bar in ganking, grief deccing, and awoxing.

because it requires interacting with other players which is a variable which may as well be a random number generator.

you can't compare an activity where the outcome is HIGHLY variable, to an activity where there are 0 unknown variables.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#530 - 2015-01-17 12:34:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I'm for raising a bar on all those activities, so it can't be done while doing harlem shake at your PC.
Mining already has this bar, as solo and afk mining are basically charity in terms of income. Why not those activities also?

Mining has no such bar, not any more so than ganking. In fact, the profitability of both activities, when both happen at the same time, is roughly equal for all parties involved. You're in favor of raising the bar on pvp activities, but you're not willing to do the same for pve players. That's entitlement.


You have no idea about mining clearly.
Income of ganking is hundreds of millions per hour, income of afk mining is 3 mil / hour, income of solo mining is 10 mil / hour at all skills to V.
Gank is free, can be done in 10 hours after making new alt, and first 3 catalysts are provided free of charge by the tutorial
Mining requires barges, logistics, and a bunch of skills to V, and still not profitable.
A properly organized mining OP breaks 30 mil / hour per barge, which is a bar I was talking about - without proper organization, preparation and setup, you are barely making 33% of what you're supposed to make. But there is no such bar in ganking, grief deccing, and awoxing.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
a person who has experience with both ganking and mining. You've really swayed my viewpoint that has been shaped by only a decade of doing the things you're talking about.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#531 - 2015-01-17 12:34:48 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve.

What about dumbmode point-click-dump mining? If we're going to measure the net worth of a gameplay activity by that sort of metric, then...


Nobody unsubs because someone else mines.
Dave Stark
#532 - 2015-01-17 12:35:04 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


because botting is illegal, and balancing issues.

neither of those apply to awoxing.


Of course it's a balancing issue.

Anyway, awoxing will be gone so hope you carebears find some other ways to get your kicks.



sure there's a balancing issue with awoxing - it's now neutral logi works not the fact that you can shoot corp members.


If you couldn't shoot corp members, you couldn't use a neutral logi, so this is the fix. Now your neutral logi shares your criminal flag.

So easiest fix was to remove intra-corp aggression, since removing it had no downsides or ill side effects.


no, you haven't fixed anything there. sorry.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#533 - 2015-01-17 12:35:42 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
But there is no such bar in ganking, grief deccing, and awoxing.

because it requires interacting with other players which is a variable which may as well be a random number generator.

you can't compare an activity where the outcome is HIGHLY variable, to an activity where there are 0 unknown variables.


Ummm.... what?

The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.

What are the variables here? All of those are free bacon.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#534 - 2015-01-17 12:36:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


because botting is illegal, and balancing issues.

neither of those apply to awoxing.


Of course it's a balancing issue.

Anyway, awoxing will be gone so hope you carebears find some other ways to get your kicks.



sure there's a balancing issue with awoxing - it's now neutral logi works not the fact that you can shoot corp members.


If you couldn't shoot corp members, you couldn't use a neutral logi, so this is the fix. Now your neutral logi shares your criminal flag.

So easiest fix was to remove intra-corp aggression, since removing it had no downsides or ill side effects.


no, you haven't fixed anything there. sorry.


True, I didn't, it was CCP.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#535 - 2015-01-17 12:38:55 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.

What are the variables here? All of those are free bacon.

You're either doing this intentionally, or you literally have no idea what you're talking about. If you're being for realsies, then I'm positively-sure that you've never even attempted to do any of those three things, much less succeeded at one of them.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#536 - 2015-01-17 12:39:42 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.

What are the variables here? All of those are free bacon.

You're either doing this intentionally, or you literally have no idea what you're talking about. If you're being for realsies, then I'm positively-sure that you've never even attempted to do any of those three things, much less succeeded at one of them.


He's serious, that's the worst part. I didn't used to think people like this actually existed. Go through his post history if you don't believe me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dave Stark
#537 - 2015-01-17 12:40:38 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
But there is no such bar in ganking, grief deccing, and awoxing.

because it requires interacting with other players which is a variable which may as well be a random number generator.

you can't compare an activity where the outcome is HIGHLY variable, to an activity where there are 0 unknown variables.


Ummm.... what?

The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.

What are the variables here? All of those are free bacon.


if i have to explain what the variables are, you're woefully unqualified to be speaking about the subject.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#538 - 2015-01-17 12:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
Yes it is if your oponent tries to play the game, there is a lot he can do about it.
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
Yes it is if your oponent tries to play the game, there is a lot he can do about it.
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.
Yes it is if your oponent tries to play the game, there is a lot he can do about it.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Evil RatKid
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#539 - 2015-01-17 12:47:41 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
Yes it is if your oponent tries to play the game, there is a lot he can do about it.
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
Yes it is if your oponent tries to play the game, there is a lot he can do about it.
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.
Yes it is if your oponent tries to play the game, there is a lot he can do about it.


Gank is unavoidable. Unless you mean logoffski because one of your 25 scouts has found a gank team ahead. Which is hardly avoiding, since you're not going anywhere.

Grief dec is unavoidable by means other than going over tremendous PITA of losing rented offices, dismounting POS and mounting it again, dropping roles in 24 hours and setting them again, populating new corp hangars in new corp, etc.

Awoxing is unavoidable because gank is unavoidable, and it's basically a free gank.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dave Stark
#540 - 2015-01-17 12:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Gank is unavoidable.


there have literally been hundreds of threads, over the course of the last few months, if not years, where people illustrate in detail how to avoid being ganked.

**** i'm pretty sure tmc even wrote a whole article just for that one point.

edit: Here it is.