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Awoxing is no more

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#501 - 2015-01-17 11:57:43 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
if you could attack the logi ships, easymode awoxing wouldn't exist at all.

it's only easymode because 1-2 almost literally unkillable t1 logi ships can turn an hour old character in a gnosis in to an unkillable awoxing machine.

if we want the easymode awoxing to be gone - the fix is the way neutral logi flagging [doesn't] work. no tthis removal of an almost entire style of play.


I completely disagree.

Even a hour old character can still easily awox an exhumer, freighter, or any other industrial ship.
No amount of flagging would be able to prevent that. That's why what CCP trying to do is best solution imo.

Maybe not, but an armed escort could. Something that is quite common as far as expensive non-combatant targets of opportunity are concerned.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Dave Stark
#502 - 2015-01-17 11:58:06 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
if you could attack the logi ships, easymode awoxing wouldn't exist at all.

it's only easymode because 1-2 almost literally unkillable t1 logi ships can turn an hour old character in a gnosis in to an unkillable awoxing machine.

if we want the easymode awoxing to be gone - the fix is the way neutral logi flagging [doesn't] work. no tthis removal of an almost entire style of play.


I completely disagree.

Even a hour old character can still easily awox an exhumer, freighter, or any other industrial ship.
No amount of flagging would be able to prevent that. That's why what CCP trying to do is best solution imo.


anyone can kill something unprepared and unsuited for the situation - it goes without saying.

say that exhumer swaps to a combat ship from the orca it's being boosted by... the situation is drastically different.
in the current situation the guy swapping to a combat ship still has 0 chance of winning due to the unkillable logi ships repping the hour old character. if the logi were flagged, he would have the chance to try and fight back and escape.

so yes, flagging would change that and dramatically so.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#503 - 2015-01-17 11:58:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Ah, the day subscription fees mattering more than quality content is finally upon us.

fair play to ccp, took them longer to succumb to allure than most other companies.
still, a sad day.


What part of a hisec awoxing was quality content?

Of course sub numbers mean more than a niché group having a free pass to ganking, what did you seriously expect? CCP is trying to fix the game before its too late, and this is just one of them.


which part of being a complete scumbag and stealing everything from a corp's poses is quality content?

which bit of shooting ships that uncloak on a gate with no chance of a fair fight is quality content?

in short; all of it, to different people.

by your logic we should be removing gatecamps, and blobbing, and... see where this is going? i'm sure you can.


Botting was quality content for some people. Tracking Titans was quality content for some people. Remote AoE DD was quality content for some people. Shooting new players in rookie systems was quality content for some people.

Why did they get removed then? I'm sure you can see where this is going.
Dave Stark
#504 - 2015-01-17 11:59:02 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Ah, the day subscription fees mattering more than quality content is finally upon us.

fair play to ccp, took them longer to succumb to allure than most other companies.
still, a sad day.


What part of a hisec awoxing was quality content?

Of course sub numbers mean more than a niché group having a free pass to ganking, what did you seriously expect? CCP is trying to fix the game before its too late, and this is just one of them.


which part of being a complete scumbag and stealing everything from a corp's poses is quality content?

which bit of shooting ships that uncloak on a gate with no chance of a fair fight is quality content?

in short; all of it, to different people.

by your logic we should be removing gatecamps, and blobbing, and... see where this is going? i'm sure you can.


Botting was quality content for some people. Tracking Titans was quality content for some people. Remote AoE DD was quality content for some people. Shooting new players in rookie systems was quality content for some people.

Why did they get removed then? I'm sure you can see where this is going.


because botting is illegal, and balancing issues.

neither of those apply to awoxing.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#505 - 2015-01-17 11:59:24 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
We should also remove all missions, because they are the worst of all content.


considering they require and encourage 0 player interaction, go for it.


0 player interaction stands above negative player interaction such as dumbmode awox.

Gotta quote this.

This has to remain for everyone to see what the average carebear mentality is with regard to pvp in this game.

"Negative" player interaction, guys.


Combat pvp is just a tiny, boring, one of side activities available in a sandbox, and it's limited to characters older than 6 years old due to younger characters losing by simply not having enough SP to participate.

I don't see why participating in it shouldn't be considered as negative.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dave Stark
#506 - 2015-01-17 11:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how an awox happens if players aren't interacting?

i'm all for discussing it, but if you're going to come out with idiotic comments like that. stop posting.


Is it me or you're not even reading today, did something happened? Somebody kicked your cat or smth this morning?
I said "negative player interaction". And awox is, without a doubt, a negative interaction.


yes, and you can't have a negative quantity of interaction.
the fact that interaction happens by default, makes it greater than 0, and thus can't be negative.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#507 - 2015-01-17 11:59:59 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how an awox happens if players aren't interacting?

i'm all for discussing it, but if you're going to come out with idiotic comments like that. stop posting.


Is it me or you're not even reading today, did something happened? Somebody kicked your cat or smth this morning?
I said "negative player interaction". And awox is, without a doubt, a negative interaction.


The only conclusion to draw from your statements is that you don't think non consensual PvP should exist at all.

At which point I'll happily tell you to go back to WoW.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#508 - 2015-01-17 12:00:39 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

We should also remove all missions, because they are the worst of all content.


Oh, it's definitely not worse than mining. Or hauling.


Just because numerically disabled people can't do it efficiently doesn't mean it's bad.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#509 - 2015-01-17 12:01:15 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Combat pvp is just a tiny, boring, one of side activities available in a sandbox, and it's limited to characters older than 6 years old due to younger characters losing by simply not having enough SP to participate.

I don't see why participating in it shouldn't be considered as negative.

Oh, I get what you're doing here. Carry on by all means, eersVay.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#510 - 2015-01-17 12:02:18 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Just because numerically disabled people can't do it efficiently doesn't mean it's bad.


Of course not. It's bad because it amounts to people playing an MMO like a single player game.

Anything that does so, or enables that to be done is bad by definition.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#511 - 2015-01-17 12:03:09 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how an awox happens if players aren't interacting?

i'm all for discussing it, but if you're going to come out with idiotic comments like that. stop posting.


Is it me or you're not even reading today, did something happened? Somebody kicked your cat or smth this morning?
I said "negative player interaction". And awox is, without a doubt, a negative interaction.


yes, and you can't have a negative quantity of interaction.


But the quality of it, to which I was obviously referring, since quantity is quite irrelevant in this, can be and is negative.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#512 - 2015-01-17 12:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Just because numerically disabled people can't do it efficiently doesn't mean it's bad.


Of course not. It's bad because it amounts to people playing an MMO like a single player game.

Anything that does so, or enables that to be done is bad by definition.


There is no way to play Eve as a single player game.

*Snip* Removed off-topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dave Stark
#513 - 2015-01-17 12:05:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how an awox happens if players aren't interacting?

i'm all for discussing it, but if you're going to come out with idiotic comments like that. stop posting.


Is it me or you're not even reading today, did something happened? Somebody kicked your cat or smth this morning?
I said "negative player interaction". And awox is, without a doubt, a negative interaction.


yes, and you can't have a negative quantity of interaction.


But the quality of it, to which I was obviously referring, since quantity is quite irrelevant in this, can be and is negative.


you were obviously referring to something we weren't talking about? okay....

the quality of most things in this game is negative, for half of the playerbase. that's generally how it works, what's good for one side, is bad for the other. if we remove anything that could be considered negative we'd have nothing left.

*Snip* Removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#514 - 2015-01-17 12:07:46 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

There is no way to play Eve as a single player game.


That doesn't stop people like from trying your hardest. Or from campaigning to make the game revolve around your misuse of it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#515 - 2015-01-17 12:10:35 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how an awox happens if players aren't interacting?

i'm all for discussing it, but if you're going to come out with idiotic comments like that. stop posting.


Is it me or you're not even reading today, did something happened? Somebody kicked your cat or smth this morning?
I said "negative player interaction". And awox is, without a doubt, a negative interaction.


yes, and you can't have a negative quantity of interaction.


But the quality of it, to which I was obviously referring, since quantity is quite irrelevant in this, can be and is negative.


you were obviously referring to something we weren't talking about? okay....

the quality of most things in this game is negative, for half of the playerbase. that's generally how it works, what's good for one side, is bad for the other. if we remove anything that could be considered negative we'd have nothing left.


Agreed. Which is why I'm not advocating to completely remove awoxing, and why I'm agreeing with you on neutral logi issue.
But quality is not zero-sum. Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve.

You can still awox smartly, you can still awox in your own corp, so what is your problem with this change exactly?
About the only thing which happened is that 10 hour heroes won't be able to join random, often newbie corps, and have a free wrecking permit in it.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#516 - 2015-01-17 12:12:57 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve.

What about dumbmode point-click-dump mining? If we're going to measure the net worth of a gameplay activity by that sort of metric, then...

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#517 - 2015-01-17 12:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Please note, fellas. This is the same Basil who thinks that there is an imaginary "exploit" involving the attackers in a wardec being allowed to dock while the deck is active.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

So if you're fine with removing awoxing, wardecs are griefing in your eyes, and I know before you've told me that ganking has to go away for good... why the hell do you play this game?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dave Stark
#518 - 2015-01-17 12:15:28 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
But quality is not zero-sum.

considering that's not the topic; it doesn't matter.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#519 - 2015-01-17 12:15:45 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve.

What about dumbmode point-click-dump mining? If we're going to measure the net worth of a gameplay activity by that sort of metric, then...


I can clearly see you've never been to a mining OP.
Solo mining is derp, no argument here.
Mining OPs are very different. At least proper ones are.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#520 - 2015-01-17 12:16:46 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve.

What about dumbmode point-click-dump mining? If we're going to measure the net worth of a gameplay activity by that sort of metric, then...


Of course not. That kind of standard for removal or savage nerfing of a mechanic clearly only applies to people who actually play the game, not people who are afk.

Silly Destiny, expecting consistency.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.