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Awoxing is no more

First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#361 - 2015-01-16 20:35:18 UTC
Aredontis wrote:
[

Your argument lacks facts. Boutique firms try to remain that way because it allows them to charge more for "exclusivity", which doesn't work when your game sub costs the same as the next game sub. The difference is content, and Eve's space ships are why I'm here, I like space. Other people have other reasons.



You are aware that most MMOs are free to play now right?

Quote:
he difference is content, and Eve's space ships are why I'm here, I like space


I can't tell you the number of times I've read the above sentence from people who like space ships but don't like what EVE actually is.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#362 - 2015-01-16 20:35:55 UTC
Aredontis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Right, and EVE makes the wrong people vote "nope, going to play LoL"...lol.

Forgive them space-God, for they know not what they do, because the "carebear" crowd doesn't understand one thing: they think they would like safer EVE too, but they are wrong.

Game after game has come by, from Black prophecy to SWG to SWTOR to Star Trek Online to now Elite:D, all were supposed to kill EVE and most are more 'player friendly' than EVE, yet the people who swore they'd leave for those games mostly didn't (or they came back).

This is because people are stupid and don't know what they want. So as soon as CCp is done nicing up the game for them , THEY (rather than the mean pvp'rs and griefers) would be the ones to leave, because they don't understand that it's the danger that keeps them here..


umm, can I have your stuff ?

( sorry everyone )

Now seriously, many people do know what they want. They want lots of space ships with cool backgrounds, rocks to mine, ships to build and little/big red +'s to blow up. Without having someone else come by and melt them. That is what they want... CCP is not giving them that, instead, CCP is trying to get more new players hooked up with corporations, and they are making in-corp killing selectable in the hopes of doing it.


Last time I checked...CCP also tried to get us to walk around in stations.

Or make a great PS3 game that is linked to EVE in so many ways.


/sarcasm.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#363 - 2015-01-16 20:38:05 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:

Honestly, go learn how to play EVE then come back and we'll have the discussion again.


Says the person who is in his corp with his own CEO-alt...to evade wardecs and play solo to the person who is in a damn active corp, happily doing stuff together, including a quite new player.

And who has been in all kinds of corps and never saw anything that you mentioned about that WILL happen whn you let a single new player in.


Forget it J'Poll, anyone who doesn't agree with the status quo is a dangerous minority and must be expelled.
Aredontis
Doomheim
#364 - 2015-01-16 20:39:01 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Thanks, Im a liar now too. Ok I yield, you are right and Im wrong.

Im sorry I let my own experience influence my view. I need to take your word for it, just as you dont accept mine.


Glad you figured that out.

The simple misconception in your argument is that Eve is like a Boutique or anything filling a "niche" market. Eve is an MMO, the first word being "Massive", the goal is to get a LOT of people doing it, which spreads the cost and increases the fun.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#365 - 2015-01-16 20:40:48 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
This thread (much like the same thread every single time there is any perceived change) isnt going to resolve either way.

But I will tell you this from actual real life, real work a day experience.

Some companies DONT want sudden mass appeal. They dont advertise in the mainstream ways, or offer special rates or try and be attractive to the masses.

Why? Because the niche market is a market that promotes creativity and diversity. Without the niche market, there would be only stagnation in the mass market because thats where the mass market leeches its ideas from.

EvE Online is as niche as it gets in the MMO market, so Im pretty sure CCP has never wanted it to be "the next WoW", if you will permit that comparison.


They want to grow so they are changing what THEY see as bad for growth. That to me means they are not happy with the niche market they have.

If ferrari owners are happy to sell high end cars to a rather niche market, it's their pejorative but CCP seem to want to get a bigger market so they will do what they think is the best to reach that goal.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#366 - 2015-01-16 20:42:21 UTC
Aredontis wrote:
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Thanks, Im a liar now too. Ok I yield, you are right and Im wrong.

Im sorry I let my own experience influence my view. I need to take your word for it, just as you dont accept mine.


Glad you figured that out.


Now if you could tell me what makes your word measurably superior to mine, then I can actually take you seriously

If you think a "boutique" (whatever the **** that is) is the only niche operation there is, then you need to actually think.

In regards to MMO, so.. what, EvE is currently a "SMO" by your measurement because its not mass market?

And I also would point out its an MMORPG, not a space sim.

Aredontis
Doomheim
#367 - 2015-01-16 20:43:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I can't tell you the number of times I've read the above sentence from people who like space ships but don't like what EVE actually is.


That sentence really shows me why we don't agree. You believe you know what Eve is and everyone else is somehow "doing it wrong" when not done your way.

Eve is many, many things, more than even the dev's thought it could be, just ask them. It will hopefully continue to be those things.


btw - before someone says it, this is my main, but he's for sale and that is why he's in an NPC corp.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#368 - 2015-01-16 20:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ma'Baker McCandless
Frostys Virpio wrote:

They want to grow so they are changing what THEY see as bad for growth. That to me means they are not happy with the niche market they have.


And so thats why non consensual PVP should be removed, right? To make the game have a mass appeal?

Considering the public view is that EvE is "Spreadsheets in space", I think thats probably what they should work on if they want to dilute the the game into a non-enjoyable click-fest
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#369 - 2015-01-16 20:47:53 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

They want to grow so they are changing what THEY see as bad for growth. That to me means they are not happy with the niche market they have.


And so thats why non consensual PVP should be removed, right? To make the game have a mass appeal?

Conssidering the public view is that EvE is "Spreadsheets in space", I think thats probably what they should work on if they want to dilute the the game into a non-enjoyable click-fest


It's your opinion and they have a different one. You can vote every single month.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#370 - 2015-01-16 20:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ma'Baker McCandless
Frostys Virpio wrote:


It's your opinion and they have a different one. You can vote every single month.


Funny, because everything any CCP employee has said in these forums has pretty much been the opposite of your and the other warship-averse posters.

I can find you some of Falcon's posts if you wish, but Im pretty sure you know exactly what they say as well as I do.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#371 - 2015-01-16 20:51:03 UTC
Oh, gosh, another nerf. I'm shocked. GF to the one more nerf whiners.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#372 - 2015-01-16 20:51:58 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
You still assume that all new players automatically are awoxers.
They aren't.
No, I don;t assume anything. I pointer out that there is no way to tell the difference between the two. If your corp recruits brand new players, it also recruits awoxers. It's that simple.

J'Poll wrote:
I've been in a high-sec corp for nearly a year when I started, they very openly recruited new players...

NOT a single Awox happened...not 1

They openly recruited from a tutorial station system...

NOT 1...
Congratulations, your corp got lucky.

J'Poll wrote:
So, if you and yoru corp...together fail to kill an awoxer...does that say something about the game or about your corp's ability to react to something?
It might say that they are a non-combat focussed corp. If you have to have combat pilots flying around protecting your ships from your own corp members your corp is terrible.

J'Poll wrote:
If you and yoru corp mates are SO terrible paranoid that all new players are definately awoxers and everybody that isn't new isn't (hint, age or backgroudn doesn't say anything, it's easy to rig a "good" history just to awox your actual target) you are in an even worse corp and shouldn't be recruiting at all.
At no point did I say that only newbies are awoxers, but a 6 month old character can generally be weeded out using API and cross referencing. A newbie is indistinguishable in every way from an awoxer. I understand you don't get it, but it's a simple fact. You can come up with whatever you want but if you don't even do basic screening for your members you're a terrible corp, and your members will be the ones who suffer.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#373 - 2015-01-16 20:53:00 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
They want to grow so they are changing what THEY see as bad for growth. That to me means they are not happy with the niche market they have.

Then they should tell us so, instead of whispering sweet nothings into our ears about "cold harsh universes," while secretly taking actions in direct contradiction with their words.

Look, if CCP just came out and told us that this is what they want to do now, then we'd at least have something to live with.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Aredontis
Doomheim
#374 - 2015-01-16 20:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Aredontis
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Now if you could tell me what makes your word measurably superior to mine, then I can actually take you seriously

If you think a "boutique" (whatever the **** that is) is the only niche operation there is, then you need to actually think.

In regards to MMO, so.. what, EvE is currently a "SMO" by your measurement because its not mass market?

And I also would point out its an MMORPG, not a space sim.


Nothing makes it superior (even immeasurably), but in this case it is more factual.
A "boutique" is an establishment designed to serve smaller audiences at higher costs. Basically, people paying for exclusivity. They can be in any field, spas, hi-end watches, jewelry stores, and suit stores are all boutiques. Boutiques are generally filling a niche market. For example, jewelry is a niche market, because it isn't something people buy often, there are plenty of customers, but you don't buy jewelry on a regular schedule like you would mass-market items like food and gas.

Your final two lines should have clued you in, Eve is an MMO, not an SMO, and adding RPG is only good for the role-playing characters. I play Eve the MMO, not RPG end of it that role-players like CODE work with.

Time to go home now, back later.
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#375 - 2015-01-16 20:54:57 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Honestly, go learn how to play EVE then come back and we'll have the discussion again.
Says the person who is in his corp with his own CEO-alt...to evade wardecs and play solo to the person who is in a damn active corp, happily doing stuff together, including a quite new player.

And who has been in all kinds of corps and never saw anything that you mentioned about that WILL happen whn you let a single new player in.
I'm a trading alt. My corp is a trader corp with my traders in it. It won't ever have new players in it since the only reason they are in a corp is to share a wallet. My main is in a nullsec corp.

Even if that weren't the case it still wouldn't change the fact that you've evidenced a complete lack of understanding about EVE. You couldn't even work out how mining yields work. That's something newbie miners learn in their first week.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#376 - 2015-01-16 20:58:42 UTC
Aredontis wrote:

Nothing makes it superior (even immeasurably), but in this case it is more factual.
A "boutique" is an establishment designed to server smaller audiences at higher costs. Basically, people paying for exclusivity. They can be in any field, spas, hi-end watches, jewelry stores, and suit stores are all boutiques. Boutiques are generally filling a niche market. For example, jewelry is a niche market, because it isn't something people buy often, there are plenty of customers, but you don't buy jewelry on a regular schedule like you would mass-market items like food and gas.

Your final two lines should have clued you in, Eve is an MMO, not an SMO, and adding RPG is only good for the role-playing characters. I play Eve the MMO, not RPG end of it that role-players like CODE work with.

Time to go home now, back later.


A) More factual, you say but lacking any citation so of as much worth to me as yours to mine.

B) Yup, independant stores, record labels, comic book companies, online companies, whole food suppliers, toy makers etc etc etc with artistic integrity just dont exist apparently. I guess the two I worked for were just dreams.

C) So if its an MMO already, why does it need to increase in size to justify the title of MMORPG to you? Like it or not you ARE roleplaying. Your corp doesnt exist. Its a role you play to be CEO.

Sorry to break it to you.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#377 - 2015-01-16 21:00:30 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


It's your opinion and they have a different one. You can vote every single month.


Funny, because everything any CCP employee has said in these forums has pretty much been the opposite of your and the other warship-averse posters.

I can find you some of Falcon's posts if you wish, but Im pretty sure you know exactly what they say as well as I do.


Falcon is a DEV, not an owner. His belief are his own. I believe he is truthful when he speaks his mind about the game but that does not mean his thinking is work of law when it comes to game change and where the game will be headed.

No matter how much he loves how EVE is harsh and all that, if the the boss gets the order to do what is needed to increase the subscription base, his job, as part of the dev team, will be to find way to increase the subscription base. If it means majorly damaging what EVE currently is, he will have to do it or "cast his vote". He will fight tooth and nail to keep the game as it is now but unless the decision is in his hands, he, like the rest of the devs team, will have to produce what the higher up ask them to.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#378 - 2015-01-16 21:01:54 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Falcon is a DEV, not an owner. His belief are his own. I believe he is truthful when he speaks his mind about the game but that does not mean his thinking is work of law when it comes to game change and where the game will be headed.


Actually, he's a dev, not a DEV (Dellusional Eve Victim?), and when he speaks in his CCP Falcon persona he speaks for the company.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Aredontis
Doomheim
#379 - 2015-01-16 21:02:01 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
And so thats why non consensual PVP should be removed, right? To make the game have a mass appeal?

Considering the public view is that EvE is "Spreadsheets in space", I think thats probably what they should work on if they want to dilute the the game into a non-enjoyable click-fest


Straw-man much? No one (not even me who would really have liked somewhere "safe" 2 years ago) is asking for removal of non-consensual PVP. Hell, CCP isn't even removing it. They are making it so that a corp can decide if it wants to involve concord when it's members shoot each other. There is literally nothing that stops an awoxer from joining the corp, pointing the shiny target and letting a bunch of gankers help them blow it up. The only change is that now, the awoxer loses their ship as well. That is all.
Dave Stark
#380 - 2015-01-16 21:06:32 UTC
Ah, the day subscription fees mattering more than quality content is finally upon us.

fair play to ccp, took them longer to succumb to allure than most other companies.
still, a sad day.