These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Awoxing is no more

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#241 - 2015-01-16 17:11:20 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I want everything for free!!!
I am not sure why you think every corp with a couple of players should be able to have a POS. If you want to put something up and call it your own in this competitive multiplayer sandbox then you are better ready to defend it. This works as intended and there are POSs all over highsec, so it seams there are corps who manage to do what you seam to have a problem with.

I am not sure why you think every corp with a couple of players should not be able to have a POS.
If you want to put up something and call it your own in this sandbox, you have to pay the cost of it, either by ISK or by playtime grinding for fuel components and charters. This works as intended and there are POSes all over hisec, so it seems there are corps who manage to do what I have no problems with.

The problem lies with grief dec having no meaningful gameplay for the defender, making takedown the only rational solution, rather than not playing the game for a week or getting meaninglessly wiped out by an grief deccing opponent who carefully selected you as a target that he can grief.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#242 - 2015-01-16 17:12:22 UTC
Killing new players in noob corps is not Awoxing.



The End.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#243 - 2015-01-16 17:12:38 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
[quote=J'Poll]
New guys are affected by awoxing as an decent corp will reject them as they may be an awoxer. This means newer players only really get accepted to bait corps or ones run by some lunatic who will undoubtedly get the corp robbed at some point. The awox change means that newer players can safely be recruited, which is good for news players. It's pretty simple really.


If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp


Nonetheless, it's still a new player being told to stay in his NPC corp.

That's what CCP is trying to fix. And what the elites have been whining about forever.

So CCP comes up with a solution to give corps an incentive to accept new players and clear out the NPC corps and suddenly it's a bad move?

No one thinks in here, do they? They find the worst possible outlier in any situation and run with it. Think people. Just think for a change before mashing your keyboard into dust.

Mr Epeen Cool

They can fix that by removing the NPC corporation mechanic.
Which will cause actual mass unsubs instead of just empty threats.

Mr Epeen Cool
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#244 - 2015-01-16 17:16:30 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp
No, that makes it a sensible corp. You can't tell the difference between a 3 day old noob and a 3 day old character on a fresh account. Even with API checks. If you're in a corp and you're CEO is inviting new characters, he's asking for you to be awoxed. So no, a corp is not bad for rigorously protecting it's members.

J'Poll wrote:
So, what you are saying...EVE Uni is ran by lunatics. Nice way of complimenting someone.
Yes, I am. EVE Uni is pretty terrible at introducing people to what EVE is all about. You should have used brave newbies as an example, but then they aren't highsec so awoxing (in the form this change affects) is irrelevant.

J'Poll wrote:
A corp that is interested in new players, recruits them now already.
A corp that does not recruit new players now, will not recruit new players after the change. As they are not interested in new players.
Wrong. there are plenty of corps that won't recruit newbies to protect their existing members from potential awoxers. After this change they will no longer need to do that.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#245 - 2015-01-16 17:16:43 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Nonetheless, it's still a new player being told to stay in his NPC corp.

That's what CCP is trying to fix. And what the elites have been whining about forever.

So CCP comes up with a solution to give corps an incentive to accept new players and clear out the NPC corps and suddenly it's a bad move?

No one thinks in here, do they? They find the worst possible outlier in any situation and run with it. Think people. Just think for a change before mashing your keyboard into dust.

Mr Epeen Cool

They can fix that by removing the NPC corporation mechanic.
Which will cause actual mass unsubs instead of just empty threats.

Mr Epeen Cool

Conjecture.

Furthermore, why is it okay to have mass unsubs from the pvp segment of the player population but not the pve segment?

Furthermore, new players are hardly conscious of the NPC corporation mechanic (and what it entails for nonconsensual pvp in the game), and thus, the absence of NPC corporations will feel natural to them, much like all of the other game mechanics they have to learn.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#246 - 2015-01-16 17:18:15 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I want everything for free!!!
I am not sure why you think every corp with a couple of players should be able to have a POS. If you want to put something up and call it your own in this competitive multiplayer sandbox then you are better ready to defend it. This works as intended and there are POSs all over highsec, so it seams there are corps who manage to do what you seam to have a problem with.

I am not sure why you think every corp with a couple of players should not be able to have a POS.
If you want to put up something and call it your own in this sandbox, you have to pay the cost of it, either by ISK or by playtime grinding for fuel components and charters. This works as intended and there are POSes all over hisec, so it seems there are corps who manage to do what I have no problems with.

The problem lies with grief dec having no meaningful gameplay for the defender, making takedown the only rational solution, rather than not playing the game for a week or getting meaninglessly wiped out by an grief deccing opponent who carefully selected you as a target that he can grief.

There's more to "cost" than an ISK value.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#247 - 2015-01-16 17:23:14 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Nonetheless, it's still a new player being told to stay in his NPC corp.

That's what CCP is trying to fix. And what the elites have been whining about forever.

So CCP comes up with a solution to give corps an incentive to accept new players and clear out the NPC corps and suddenly it's a bad move?

No one thinks in here, do they? They find the worst possible outlier in any situation and run with it. Think people. Just think for a change before mashing your keyboard into dust.

Mr Epeen Cool

They can fix that by removing the NPC corporation mechanic.
Which will cause actual mass unsubs instead of just empty threats.

Mr Epeen Cool

Conjecture.

Furthermore, why is it okay to have mass unsubs from the pvp segment of the player population but not the pve segment?

Furthermore, new players are hardly conscious of the NPC corporation mechanic (and what it entails for nonconsensual pvp in the game), and thus, the absence of NPC corporations will feel natural to them, much like all of the other game mechanics they have to learn.


It's not that one is more okay than the others but we know for a fact the PvP crowd is not quiting en masse when a change they cried about happen. Nobody really know what the PvE crowd will do if they gets a hard nerf.
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#248 - 2015-01-16 17:25:00 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Conjecture.
lol, that's generally accepted to be a fact.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Furthermore, why is it okay to have mass unsubs from the pvp segment of the player population but not the pve segment?
Like he stated, the mass quits from the PVP segment are empty threats, not actions. Whenever CCP do anything that benefits a non-PVP player, the PVP players all go up in arms and threaten to quit. Yet they never do. Mass quits aren't good from any side, but threatening to quit every time CCP supports a different player group gets pretty old pretty quick.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Furthermore, new players are hardly conscious of the NPC corporation mechanic (and what it entails for nonconsensual pvp in the game), and thus, the absence of NPC corporations will feel natural to them, much like all of the other game mechanics they have to learn.
But where would they go? You couldn't just jam them into a random player run corp and if you stuck them in specific player corps, those corps would be permadecced, so they'd probably have to go into their own corp, meaning you'd have thousands of players in a corp on their own, now interacting even less as they wouldn't even have a corp chat to talk over.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#249 - 2015-01-16 17:25:25 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

The problem lies with grief dec having no meaningful gameplay for the defender, making takedown the only rational solution, rather than not playing the game for a week or getting meaninglessly wiped out by an grief deccing opponent who carefully selected you as a target that he can grief.


PvP Corps carefully selectin' their targets?

Whutevah next?

Target's defendin' themselves or makin' it hard for the attackers to find them and stop them makin' Isk?

Nah that would be too much like hard work, right?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#250 - 2015-01-16 17:25:54 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp
No, that makes it a sensible corp. You can't tell the difference between a 3 day old noob and a 3 day old character on a fresh account. Even with API checks. If you're in a corp and you're CEO is inviting new characters, he's asking for you to be awoxed. So no, a corp is not bad for rigorously protecting it's members.

J'Poll wrote:
So, what you are saying...EVE Uni is ran by lunatics. Nice way of complimenting someone.
Yes, I am. EVE Uni is pretty terrible at introducing people to what EVE is all about. You should have used brave newbies as an example, but then they aren't highsec so awoxing (in the form this change affects) is irrelevant.

J'Poll wrote:
A corp that is interested in new players, recruits them now already.
A corp that does not recruit new players now, will not recruit new players after the change. As they are not interested in new players.
Wrong. there are plenty of corps that won't recruit newbies to protect their existing members from potential awoxers. After this change they will no longer need to do that.


No. Aftee the change. You and all your fellow nimwits will still reject new players, cause they could be a spy or they could be a thief.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#251 - 2015-01-16 17:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Why have a toggle option, what a missed chance to exact some rebalancing on the underused battlecruiser class of ships with yet another novelty role bonus.

Here's an example Drake for CCP to consider.



Caldari Battlecruiser bonuses (per skill level):
4% bonus to all shield resistances
10% bonus to kinetic Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile damage
24 hour delay to forcible ejection from corporation

Role Bonus:
• Can fit Warfare Link modules
• Immunity to CONCORD response for aggression towards corporation members
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#252 - 2015-01-16 17:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Tim Timpson wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Furthermore, why is it okay to have mass unsubs from the pvp segment of the player population but not the pve segment?
Like he stated, the mass quits from the PVP segment are empty threats, not actions. Whenever CCP do anything that benefits a non-PVP player, the PVP players all go up in arms and threaten to quit. Yet they never do. Mass quits aren't good from any side, but threatening to quit every time CCP supports a different player group gets pretty old pretty quick.

Removing awoxing isn't really a major change. Do you really think there wouldn't be mass unsubs from the pvp sector if for example either ganking or wars were done away with?

Tim Timpson wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Furthermore, new players are hardly conscious of the NPC corporation mechanic (and what it entails for nonconsensual pvp in the game), and thus, the absence of NPC corporations will feel natural to them, much like all of the other game mechanics they have to learn.
But where would they go? You couldn't just jam them into a random player run corp and if you stuck them in specific player corps, those corps would be permadecced, so they'd probably have to go into their own corp, meaning you'd have thousands of players in a corp on their own, now interacting even less as they wouldn't even have a corp chat to talk over.

I'm sure we can come together and think of a system that would be superior to what we have right now.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2015-01-16 17:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
The Only way To Rid of Awoxing is That CCP Bans it or(To All New Players) Go COVOPS, SPY On Everybody else Be Your own Boss 1 ManCorp ,Multiplex, Have 10 accounts, be Indy, form your own corps and alliances and recruit all your alts.(inlfiltrate other corps, Awoxing Will be no more,no more tears ,you wont have recruit anyone or answer to any corps or get rejected again ! (or give out your API and pay taxes.) or Everybody in Eve Hugs each others and declare Peace (That would never happen)

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#254 - 2015-01-16 17:28:23 UTC
Removing Awoxing means nothing to actual High Sec PVPers. Honestly its probably a good change. People will adapt, or they won't, doesn't really matter.

Don't ******* touch my wars though.

-Badman
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#255 - 2015-01-16 17:29:42 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
[quote=J'Poll]
New guys are affected by awoxing as an decent corp will reject them as they may be an awoxer. This means newer players only really get accepted to bait corps or ones run by some lunatic who will undoubtedly get the corp robbed at some point. The awox change means that newer players can safely be recruited, which is good for news players. It's pretty simple really.


If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp


Nonetheless, it's still a new player being told to stay in his NPC corp.

That's what CCP is trying to fix. And what the elites have been whining about forever.

So CCP comes up with a solution to give corps an incentive to accept new players and clear out the NPC corps and suddenly it's a bad move?

No one thinks in here, do they? They find the worst possible outlier in any situation and run with it. Think people. Just think for a change before mashing your keyboard into dust.

Mr Epeen Cool


Sorry. But how come that there are numerous of new player friendly corps already out there atm that assist new players into the way of EVE.

New players have nothing to do with this.

If CCP wanted more new players to get into a player corp, they would have updated their NPE to get it happening.

This is just the next move to keep the highsec whiners happy.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#256 - 2015-01-16 17:29:53 UTC
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
Removing Awoxing means nothing to actual High Sec PVPers. Honestly its probably a good change. People will adapt, or they won't, doesn't really matter.

Don't ******* touch my wars though.

It will happen, and you know it.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#257 - 2015-01-16 17:31:39 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

The problem lies with grief dec having no meaningful gameplay for the defender, making takedown the only rational solution, rather than not playing the game for a week or getting meaninglessly wiped out by an grief deccing opponent who carefully selected you as a target that he can grief.


PvP Corps carefully selectin' their targets?

Whutevah next?

Target's defendin' themselves or makin' it hard for the attackers to find them and stop them makin' Isk?

Nah that would be too much like hard work, right?


The issue is how proefficient the deccer corp have become (this is completely to their honor after learning how to do it better) that the corp not looking for that gameplay will be outplayed if he tries so he take the next logical step to protect what he "owns".

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#258 - 2015-01-16 17:38:49 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


This is just the next move to keep the highsec whiners happy.


Lots of whiners in this thread and mostly from high sec. They don't seem very happy, though.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#259 - 2015-01-16 17:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ma'Baker McCandless
Frostys Virpio wrote:

The issue is how proefficient the deccer corp have become (this is completely to their honor after learning how to do it better) that the corp not looking for that gameplay will be outplayed if he tries so he take the next logical step to protect what he "owns".


Avoiding losses in war is an entirely different style to attempting to cause losses and is much more suited to the skills and abilities of non-PVP corps. They are jus' too lazy t'do it.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#260 - 2015-01-16 17:55:11 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


This is just the next move to keep the highsec whiners happy.


Lots of whiners in this thread and mostly from high sec. They don't seem very happy, though.

Mr Epeen Cool




I'm noticing the same pattern.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!