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Awoxing is no more

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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#121 - 2015-01-16 14:15:28 UTC
It doesn't matter if you do the checks or not, you can have someone that's been in your corp for months or years all of a sudden go on a killing spree but has never had any hint the person would turn before.

Empire is for people to get on their feet but I watch new players join mining corps as they can no longer fleet in a lvl 4 with out losses like I used to take fleets on, then if they aren't ganked before joining a corp they get awoxed and quit after joining the corp.

eventually when eve begins to fade out there will be the big blue doughnut in null sec, and a empire full of greifers in the end.

you want pvp 24/7 go play the world of series

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#122 - 2015-01-16 14:16:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden?


No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else).

And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous.

I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths.


You're butting your head up against "conventional wisdom" that's just as wrong in real life as it is here. The truth is, human beings are the worse people at ask about the human condition lol. we need some martians to come help.

CCP heres all this complaining about stuff, and they act on it, making the business mistake of listening to the wrong customers. Wal-mart did that and last a little bit of money.


CCp is doing the same thing and now wondering why a game that was steadily growing for 10 years when it was 'cold, harsh and unfriendly' some how stopped growing when they added safeties, improved crime watch and pop ups that prevent you from stubbing your toes....


You couldn't have been further away from truth.



LOL. "Translation, I can't read a graph".

See the underline and bolded part of my post. And crimewatch made suicide ganking harder not easier, which any non-biased person could see.


You really can't read a graph. Once suicide wanking was just a bit reduced with crimewatch, eve saw explosive growth.
Then it receives buff in Odyssey half a year later, along with trainwrecking mining by more than 50% of its income. Boom, all growth gone without a trace.

Best proof about what's really giving growth and what isn't.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2015-01-16 14:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
However did they really get rid of the Awoxing Officially ? I only read this forum i didnt verify .

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#124 - 2015-01-16 14:19:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden?


No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else).

And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous.

I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths.


You're butting your head up against "conventional wisdom" that's just as wrong in real life as it is here. The truth is, human beings are the worse people at ask about the human condition lol. we need some martians to come help.

CCP heres all this complaining about stuff, and they act on it, making the business mistake of listening to the wrong customers. Wal-mart did that and last a little bit of money.


CCp is doing the same thing and now wondering why a game that was steadily growing for 10 years when it was 'cold, harsh and unfriendly' some how stopped growing when they added safeties, improved crime watch and pop ups that prevent you from stubbing your toes....


"The story so far:
In the early years hisec was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”

Hisec, by it's very nature is an impossible mess of rules that are always vulnerable to exploits, easy to misunderstand and creating lopsided engagements. In my personal opinion it should have never been made, and life for CCP would have been much easier in terms of Game Master man years and mechanics programming.

However, too much time has passed and it's not realistic to discuss the complete removal of hisec, so perhaps it's better to make it even "safer". Just make it smaller and separate the empires with lowsec :)

That said, it's highly debatable that increased safety of hisec is connected with the stalling rate of EVE's growth. Thriving in EVE requires a significant investment of time, and the rewards it offers are dramatically different to what the more popular games offer. World in general has turned into ****, full of nickiminajs, republicans, selfies and egocentric status updates, and slow, challenging games like EVE simply aren't what the modern audience want. Mankind has left the Age of Civilisation behind and entered the Age of Retardation.

Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#125 - 2015-01-16 14:22:39 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

There's no love lost between me and terrible hisec corps and their "bot-aspirant behaviour" (yes, I quoted James for extra hisec wanker points), but in the end their existence doesn't hurt the game, quite contrary. When it comes to decisions, I'd rather have 10 mission runners than 1 awoxer and only 5 mission runners. And I support CCP for seeing the same reality.

And again, if the real motive for awoxing is protecting New Eden from terrible hisec failcorps, then making a better hisec corp would be a more efficient solution. However, it's not the motive, it's "tears". And sub numbers > tears. Think of the game.

I agree - changes that would minimize the chances of new players ending up in highsec failcorps would be way better for the game. But this change may do the opposite. It will stabilize these fail corps and allow them to spam invites in rookie systems without risk. More players may end up in these corps, and a larger number may quit Eve a few months later after having a boring time doing nothing but being taxed by a malicious CEO.

Their existence actually does hurt the game, at least in their ability to capture new players and preventing them from having a better initial Eve experience in a proper corp, whether that be in highsec, lowsec, or wherever. Whether the number of new players that find their way to good highsec corps that now will recruit will offset the number trapped in the increased number of failcorps and who will quit Eve because of that is the big question.

The intention of awoxers ("tears" as you call them) is irrelevant to the real risk they currently provide to highsec corps.

Let's hope CCP knows what they are doing.


Please remember that if you are so concerned about these hisec failcorps, you still have methods to cure them by gunpoint diplomacy. Or make better corps, this is a sandbox game, and the culture is what we make it.

If these failcorps are more able than you, assuming here that you don't represent a failcorp, in recruiting new players. Maybe they are in some ways better than you then.
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#126 - 2015-01-16 14:25:18 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
It'll be interesting to see the details on the option to turn intercorp aggression on and off, particularly what roles are needed in order to do so and how often it can be done.

I envision this conversation happening at some point:

"Hey, Bill, could you help me check my tanking abilities? I turned on the shooty thing for the corp. Bring something with a lot of damage, gimme a real work out!"
"Alrighty, I'll bring my pimped out mission boat. Thing packs a punch!"
*Concord murders Bill. Bill's corpmate scoops loot*
*Bill is kicked from corp by corpmate*
"Hey John, can you help me check my tanking abilities?"


Wouldnt safety not being red prevent this?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#127 - 2015-01-16 14:26:30 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden?


No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else).

And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous.

I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths.


You're butting your head up against "conventional wisdom" that's just as wrong in real life as it is here. The truth is, human beings are the worse people at ask about the human condition lol. we need some martians to come help.

CCP heres all this complaining about stuff, and they act on it, making the business mistake of listening to the wrong customers. Wal-mart did that and last a little bit of money.


CCp is doing the same thing and now wondering why a game that was steadily growing for 10 years when it was 'cold, harsh and unfriendly' some how stopped growing when they added safeties, improved crime watch and pop ups that prevent you from stubbing your toes....


You couldn't have been further away from truth.

Crimewatch didn't last from the first red line to the second one; it lasted from the first red line up to now. Why don't you go ahead and extrapolate a trendline that covers that whole period?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#128 - 2015-01-16 14:26:54 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.

We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...

Evil RatKid
Memphis Baas
#129 - 2015-01-16 14:26:58 UTC
Love to sing HTFU back at CCP now that they're looking at their declining subscription numbers and realizing that all that hard work they're doing with a patch every month isn't having much of a reversing effect on numbers. They'll have to do more than this if they want to attract the mostly carebear MMO players from other games (SWTOR, WoW).

EVE players love to chant how EVE is tough and we should all adapt or leave, and then they get confused when CCP is forced to take steps to convince people to stay rather than leave.
Memphis Baas
#130 - 2015-01-16 14:28:48 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Ask CCP what their stats say about the effects your alliance is having on their newbie subscription numbers.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#131 - 2015-01-16 14:30:48 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden?


No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else).

And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous.

I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths.


You're butting your head up against "conventional wisdom" that's just as wrong in real life as it is here. The truth is, human beings are the worse people at ask about the human condition lol. we need some martians to come help.

CCP heres all this complaining about stuff, and they act on it, making the business mistake of listening to the wrong customers. Wal-mart did that and last a little bit of money.


CCp is doing the same thing and now wondering why a game that was steadily growing for 10 years when it was 'cold, harsh and unfriendly' some how stopped growing when they added safeties, improved crime watch and pop ups that prevent you from stubbing your toes....


You couldn't have been further away from truth.

Crimewatch didn't last from the first red line to the second one; it lasted from the first red line up to now. Why don't you go ahead and extrapolate a trendline that covers that whole period?


The obvious answer is because he's not interested in the actual truth of the matter.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#132 - 2015-01-16 14:32:26 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Ask CCP what their stats say about the effects your alliance is having on their newbie subscription numbers.


Maybe, that means that those new players should have done some reading about what EVE is.

I agree with the many others:

CCP is ruining the game, just to make sure all those WoW fanbois will stay in the game.

High is being made too safe and too easy.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#133 - 2015-01-16 14:34:00 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Ask CCP what their stats say about the effects your alliance is having on their newbie subscription numbers.

Yeah we introduce a lot of bored players to the real game which makes sure they don't quit the game out of boredom.

Evil RatKid
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#134 - 2015-01-16 14:34:34 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
World in general has turned into ****, full of nickiminajs, republicans Democrats, selfies and egocentric status updates,


Fixed

Quote:

and slow, challenging games like EVE simply aren't what the modern audience want. Mankind has left the Age of Civilisation behind and entered the Age of Retardation.


Screw them. Whatn you are saying is true, but EVE doesn't have to follow suit.

Quote:

Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.


They don't live in high sec because of the protection, they live there because that's where the kinds of people who "choose to play a video game but can't stand losing in a video game" live. If I were so inclined that's where i'd live full time too.
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#135 - 2015-01-16 14:34:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is so intensely self-serving it's not funny, and I'm a PVE focused player.

PVE is a great example of what I said in my previous post. "Better PVE" is a mantra for some people, but their actions put the lie to their request, because the fact that we spend YEAR after YEAR playing the same crappy PVE content means we don't want 'better' PVE. if it weren't good enough we wouldn't be here.

Real PVE players understand what EVE PVE is: it's sandbox pve content in a pve game. The way to play it is to find new and different ways to do it (like how some people beat lvl 4 missions with assault frigs faster than average mission runners do with battleships, or like how this dude solos the blood raider 10/10 with one ship when everyone says it's impossible).

The people crying for "good pve" are people who belong in thempark games (aka "movies that pretend to let you interact with them") not sandbox games that require thought.
I'm not "crying" for better PVE, I'm stating that PVE also exists and is also a part of the game that needs to be looked at. The assumption Kaarous was making is that PVE leads to people leaving and PVP doesn't therefore all focus should go on improving PVP. What I was pointing out is that more player join seeking PVE therefore improving the PVE experience can also be a good thing.

And no, nobody "belongs" in any game. If they want to play EVE,they can play EVE. If you don't like them because you want everything your way, tough. Go make your own game if you want creative control. In EVE, CCP will make decisions based on what is best for their business even if that means reducing risk, and if you don't like it you know where the biomass button is.

By the way, the truth is that EVE doesn't require much thought so let's put that one to bed. Most activities can be performed almost completely AFK.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#136 - 2015-01-16 14:35:17 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:

[quote] What you think is absolutely irrelevant if CCP choose to go in a different direction. They've shown that they are not afraid of losing a handful of bittervets if it brings a big enough benefit, and if they change something you don;t like and you ragequit, they won't care.


Except.

They do care.

A. All the good stories and free publicity that EVE has had over the years (some which included RL news headlines) were by the hands of those veterans.

B. The last time they did NOT listen to their existing playerbase, they had to lay off about 30% of their devs...

Hint: Look up Monocle-gate / Summer of Rage / Jita Riots / Greed-is-Good and you will finally understand.



I'm actually quite sure, that if CCP keeps turning EVE into something that they might as well rename their company to Blizzard 2.0 it will be the end of the game.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#137 - 2015-01-16 14:37:00 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:

Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.


I (player, not character) was a nullsec line member for nearly three years, and spent the better part of a year living in a wormhole in recent days.

Please, tell me more about me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#138 - 2015-01-16 14:39:22 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:


The people crying for "good pve" are people who belong in thempark games (aka "movies that pretend to let you interact with them") not sandbox games that require thought.
I'm not "crying" for better PVE, I'm stating that PVE also exists and is also a part of the game that needs to be looked at. The assumption Kaarous was making is that PVE leads to people leaving and PVP doesn't therefore all focus should go on improving PVP. What I was pointing out is that more player join seeking PVE therefore improving the PVE experience can also be a good thing.

And no, nobody "belongs" in any game. If they want to play EVE,they can play EVE. If you don't like them because you want everything your way, tough. Go make your own game if you want creative control. In EVE, CCP will make decisions based on what is best for their business even if that means reducing risk, and if you don't like it you know where the biomass button is.

By the way, the truth is that EVE doesn't require much thought so let's put that one to bed. Most activities can be performed almost completely AFK.[/quote]

People are crying for good PvE AND less PvP, in a PvP game (look up the official New Player FAQ by CCP, they themself state that EVE is designed as a PvP game at its core).

Those people that just wnat to PvE in peace, should go to a game that is designed for peaceful PvE.
I'm not rushing into a PvE game and demand they should make more good PvP.


btw, good luck doing AFK PvP...You clearly are one of those mindless peopel that sponsor CCP by a monthly payment and then don't actually play the game.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#139 - 2015-01-16 14:40:43 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.

We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Because CONCORD keeps all the PVPers out of hisec, so you can play in peace with the carebears. If you didn't need the hisec environment, you'd be elsewhere.



Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#140 - 2015-01-16 14:41:47 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:

[quote] What you think is absolutely irrelevant if CCP choose to go in a different direction. They've shown that they are not afraid of losing a handful of bittervets if it brings a big enough benefit, and if they change something you don;t like and you ragequit, they won't care.


Except.

They do care.

A. All the good stories and free publicity that EVE has had over the years (some which included RL news headlines) were by the hands of those veterans.

B. The last time they did NOT listen to their existing playerbase, they had to lay off about 30% of their devs...

Hint: Look up Monocle-gate / Summer of Rage / Jita Riots / Greed-is-Good and you will finally understand.



I'm actually quite sure, that if CCP keeps turning EVE into something that they might as well rename their company to Blizzard 2.0 it will be the end of the game.


The problem is that every other company that tried to become Blizzard 2.0 learned the hard way why that doesn't work. Not a single one of the WoW clones every re-created WoW's success.

It's human nature on display here. Eventually, people forget the lessons of the mistakes of their past, and end up repeating those mistakes. CCP seems to be doing this in slow mottion (slowly moving away from the things that made EVE great in an effort to "expand it's player base" and make more money).

The problem with trying to make more money is that in most cases it results in making less money than before lol.