EVE General Discussion

This is assumption is wrong. Highsec awoxing is only a threat to established players with assets, not "noobs" who probably don't even know what awoxing is.

To test this I took all the highsec awoxing kills from November and filtered out the obvious intracorp sparring kills (like from RvB) and few other things (like self-kills from dangerous exploration sites) to get a list of actual awoxing kills (which probably still overrepresents the number). This list shows the average character age of an awox victim to be over 3 years of age, and only less than 10% were what I would call true "noobs" (<90 days in the game). And of these 7 noobs, the majority are still playing the game 30 days or more after as judged from my watchlist and killboards.

Now, clearly this data shows that this will do nothing to influence true new player's behaviour since they rarely die to awoxing and probably have no clue it exists, but perhaps it will as CCP hopes, encourage highsec corps to take on more new players. This may be true, but I am not at all convinced the new players will actually end up in competent, well-intentioned corps. I am sure this increase in safety will remove one of the major blocks to the purely exploitive corps "harvesting" new players for taxes. This will increase in the number of bad corps that do nothing to support new players, have exploitative tax rates, and that will give many new players caught by them a very poor introduction to the game, possibly even decreasing retention rates. Hopefully these new players will end up in good corps, not the bad ones, but we shall all see I guess.

I am very glad though it is toggle-able. I filtered out way more obvious intra-corp sparring or training kills than "real" awoxes in this data set, mostly from RvB, but also several other corps clearly use the function routinely for "good" purposes.

lol NPC corp tax complaint01218771 again. Here is my bucket, please fill it.....why I set up the filtration and pumping system to fill up the tanker trucker.

If anything needs to mean anything, sec status should turn into a rolling tax. How is that for an idea? 5.0....get like .05 off market prices, just to not **** off the likes off you and acts like a buffer for the next part. -1 = 5% tax, -5 = 10%, -10 = 50% bonus to market price as a penalty for your choice to buy ships off the market why you asplode things for lulz. To fix that massive, oh so unfair sounding and painful but meaningless red blinky -10 status (as it stands now) you are forced to grind it up to at least 0 from time to time.

Added bonuses:
- gate guns should have a faster response time than what we got now, cause EVE isn't safe lol. Don't fly cruisers
- try to fly a secondary toon to transport and manual trade in station so you can tell NPC insurance agents it was stolen goods , negitive sec toon pays what ever the cost shows up in the corner of the screen (the market price as listed, you pay that percentage)
- find a ship in space, same as last one....you pay a percentage above to what the "market value" when you hop in if you where not the first owner.
- Destroyers loose 3 guns and get longer lock time (aka its a small dreadnaught already), can't have cheap ships bypassing the tax laws cause some people are risk adverse

Everything I am saying, is to help suggest the idea of increasing NPC corp tax but apply the idea to everyone for increasing taxes and increase the isk sink over all . As it stands now, you can still work harder to lure your target outside the rules with the AWOX removal to engage without barely working the risk adverse way outside the old rules (you know, invite to corp and suddenly CONCORD don't give a crap...weird huh) or just gank them without a reason, cause the rules still don't change for that action. If you want risk, it should not be one sided....both parties work for it....not one is predator and the other is just a prey.

Or just GTFO of highsec and do battle everywhere else that CCP has provided, highsec is minimum wage land with barely minimum effort and shouldn't even produce killmails or loot (its should be for the lulz and destruction)....but if you want safari land shooting chained down cattle and want to lock them in their corps, just raise the price yet again to something you would consider painful (250 million for 7 days, fixes griefing cause that buys quite a bit of PVP ships and you would have to choose) and a second tier option for 1 billion for 7 days that they can't bail corp...at best they don't log on, if POS involved they defend or free happy AFK shooting for you, and last but not least....isk sink for everyone! They don't make anything on that character but for market trading, you won't make much except what they drop or loot from POS.

And you can still gank NPC corp characters, just grow some balls and pull the trigger....CONCORD is next to useless but if you need protection from them (cause you where hiding in a player corp while pulling the trigger, don't forget that)....get out of highsec and avoid player corps . You don't get to be a riskless predator fighting stupid prey.

tl;dr summary: AWOX shooting in corp is no different than trying to wardec an NPC corp (even though that doesn't make sense). CONCORD doesn't respond or allow it, but it protects one individual from another (which is what makes sense). AWOX to shoot while hiding in player corp protects from CONCOND while NPC corp hiding protects from wardec....its the hiding and the shooting reasoning that contradict each other. Find different targets and GTFO of highsec already.

tl;dr secondary: disallow POS activities in highsec, raise Wardec costs significantly, add Corp leaving tax, reduce but don't over nerf mission reward/asteroid belts any further. Removes reasons for many "safe" activities, in turn it changes to random individuals going about their own business which just turns into mining crappy asteroids, level 4, and market trade. Want war, force them to low/null/WH for POS benefits. Highsec turns into fall back land for the casual or regrouping, want to be predator...can't be safe from CONCORD "TEH LULZ" while throwing dynamite in the fishing pond . Everyone knows CODE, GOONS, ect ect are protected just as much as their target and abuse the rules cause its so damn hard to retaliate against them So much for risk adverse play style....CONCORD protects you in highsec until you shoot, someone wardecs you and you got the numbers + rules down....yup, you win...why should they go to low/null/WH where they lose even more? Doesn't make sense to me

And in before "tl;dr" or "words" quote!

You seem to have an issue with carebears. Why are you a carebear then?

Why can't you "PVP" unless you have CONCORD to protect you?

Why do you pursue tears in a spaceship shooting game?

Damage Control II going on there.

I don't think "rules" have much of a place in sandboxes. That's why I support a change where a rule is replaced with an option.

Personally, I do not believe for one second this a small problem. I am to believe the devs made this a priority issue because it was a "back burnered" problem? Sorry I call complete bullshit on that one.

Odds are by their count this has drove hundreds if not thousands of people away. I personally do not believe they would care if they did not see this as a serious problem.

Now please tell me how you and your X number of alt accounts can equal these figures.
While you are at it explain why something that falls so close to grief play, which Is illegal btw, bothers you so much?

In all reality (the one the rest of us are living in) more players = more targets.

If you choose to complain please explain how your way helps the game and how its worth more than 100s if not 1000s of players?
At least come up with a different idea, people that complain to complain are the most worthless of all.

Confirming griefer tears are truly the very tastiest.
I live in null, since i prefer to blob tourists than hassle hisec.
*adapt, not adopt
If you can fit anything at all move to null, risk-averse or not, in three weeks you won't be able to stay awake in hisec.

While i can understand personaly that ccp needs to do something to increase they're wallets because lets face it, ccp's workers do not survive as the general high sec pirates on tears ,unfortunately , i still do not agree of this simply because it takes away more then half of what eve trully is at its core.

I can say from my experience as a hs awoxer ( even tough for a short period and generaly againsts hs carebears with alot of isk) that hs noobs arent the targets of these attempts so the assumption is indeed flawed.

Awoxing is not to blame for the begginers quiting eve,rather the incompetence of these so called experienced hs dwellers that cannot recruit properly and protect they're assets and corp mates

I have killed an entire mining operation + charon freighter + pods simply becasuse at the moment when my less then 1 mill sp alt in a meta3\4 gnosiss landed on grid and poped the first two hulks the ceo ordered the rest to warp to the Pos and go afk till the threat is over..yet little did the corp members knew they're leader among spacemen closed up the pos therefor bouncing everyone outside in a 300 km radius around the Pos leaving them all at my mercy ( which was none) and obv they went afk as ordered and dididnt know what was going on.
This be a true story and i have the km's to prove it.

So as you can see the noobs have no implication, hs awoxers don't go after retrievers when they can be suicide ganked, don't go after ravens when they can be mission mobile tractor loot baited, don't go after tech1 frig explorers when they just blow up by themselves when they fail hacks. Hs awoxers go for shiny mission runners, entire mining fleets, expensive freighters and haulers= experienced , +1 year old players that know or should know by now what EvE really is


There could be many more arguments but alas..i doubt my oppinion will have any impact.


Yet one last thing remains to be said, if ccp do go ahead with this, then they might win over some new players yes but at the same time lose some old ones aswell.

Eve is at its core a pvp game, it should not have boumdaries nor be made in to wow , hello kitty or whatever..

10% or even more for additional safety , at the same time CCP should create some real pirate gameplay for higsec.
ARRRR! Yeerr cargo or yerrr lives!

I honestly don't really think this change to highsec awoxing is going to change much either way. But my data does show that awoxing targets are primarily older, established players contrary to the assumptions of many here who are using the "think of the noobs" excuse. This of course makes perfect sense as why would a player spend time to train a spy and infiltrate a corp just to blow up some new player in a Venture? They are targeting juicy bling mission ships and big industrials that are of course flown by older, established pilots.

How the retention rate of the tiny number of new players who were caught up in an awox compares to the overall retention rate of the game is something this data does not say. Only CCP has that data.


Perhaps, although CCP did say at the last fanfest that the kill boards capture over 95% of the kills.

There is however no evidence that there are numerous, organized efforts to kill new players by awoxing that are somehow managing to hide in the shadows. I will consider people who claim this as just scaremongering until I see evidence to this effect or CCP gives us some numbers.

Funnily enough though, this change won't protect those "noobs" from the dozens of predatory "reverse safari" corps you think are out there. They will still be able to recruit new players and turn the intracorp agression flag off and blow them up to their heart's content.

This change is only a small buff to highsec safety which won't change much, other than make bad corps with poor security safer. I won't guess whether this will increase retention rates or make the game better, but I will say that it is not at all clear to me that this is beneficial to new players at all. It is definitely beneficial to older players with assets though.