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Level 4 Caldari mission setup - Need advice/help

Author
WT Lapre
Northstar Cabal
#1 - 2015-01-13 14:52:38 UTC
Hello everyone,

I need some help… I am returning to Eve-Online after a 6 year break. I am looking get back into the game with running some level 4 missions (Caldari Space); however I feel totally lost with which ships & fittings are best for me to use given my skills. If anyone can provide me with some ship setup ideas I would be very grateful.

These are my current skills that I have: http://eveboard.com/pilot/WT_Lapre

I would also like to be able to run level 4 as fast as possible with the highest isk/hour ratio and salvage the loot from the mission for my alt builder/miner. Are there any tips or tricks for doing this?


Thanks in advance!!


Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-01-13 16:11:11 UTC
depends with your skills i would say raven or better raven navy.
my fit (raven navy) would look like 8 t2 cruise 1 mjd 1 cap injector 2 mission specific damage amps 2 tp 3 to 4 bcu 1 dc and 0 to 1 items for targeting ranges, rigs 2 t2 rigors 1 t1 flare.
Otherwise your skills can be turned into a proper nightmare with a bit of skilling.
Your weapon spec skills i would recommend to train them up to 4
But check out the golem maybe u have the prereqs for the marauders already, did only a on the fly check of your skills
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-01-13 18:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Train for a Golem. You are less than an hour from sitting in one. Get Marauders IV and then work on your drone, missile support, and cruise missile spec skills. A CNR would work fine in the mean time.

Looting and salvaging isn't what it used to be. But you can do it if you like. Personally, I don't bother with either.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#4 - 2015-01-13 19:56:46 UTC
Yes RNI for now. Start training for a Golem.

If u want something more fun U are not far away from making good use of a gila.
Quanah Comanche
#5 - 2015-01-13 20:23:48 UTC
+1 Gila. Very fun ship.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#6 - 2015-01-13 21:36:34 UTC
golem sounds like the best choice to me. I'd probably stick to a raven for a few days to get back in the swing of things.

longer term I'd say work on your drone skills, and look at the kronos, machariel, and nightmare. gun skills got a rework and you can go straight for large t2 guns now. plus gunboats are awesome now.

if you want to salvage/loot I'd put the alt in a noctis and have them follow behind you.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-01-13 23:34:32 UTC
Golem looks promising.

Another good option if you get Drone skills up eventually is a Rattlesnake.
WT Lapre
Northstar Cabal
#8 - 2015-01-13 23:53:04 UTC
Thanks everyone for your suggestions!! :)

Does anyone have a recommanded setup for the Rattlesnake & Golem?
Chicken Exroofer
Regional Assault and Recon
#9 - 2015-01-14 18:52:13 UTC
I have both a Rattlesnake and a Golem. The Golem mostly because I can.
With good drone skills, ( 7 ish million SP in drones) and T2 cruise missiles, I get just under 1200 fit window dps from it, passive tanked. I could get more with an active tank, but I don't like the low ehp and vulnerability to neuts. ( SOE missions)
The Golem only runs about 850 ish dps for me, fitted conservatively with only 2 BCU 2's. Again for more cap regen than it really needs, because neuts, and I hate refitting between missions.

Both have more than enough tank for any lvl 4. After using both for quite a while, it is kind of a toss up as to which is a more effective ( isk/ hour) mission runner. The RS is faster, because dps, especially applied dps to small targets.
The Golem can salvage it's own missions, which is lucrative, although not so much as it used to be.

For SOE LP farming, the RS wins, because faster turn around time is worth more than the salvage in most cases.
For Caldari LP/missions, the Golem would probably win, because CN LP is worth a fair bit less than SOE LP.

People would call me silly for passive tanking a RS, but losing 250-300dps to gain 70 k or more ehp, ( over 100k for me total)
is an acceptable trade. Especially considering the huge difference in cost for the fitted hulls. You can buy and fit a RS with Geckos and faction sentries ( to use while training for T2 sentries, worth the cost), and get 800 to 900 dps out of it.

Rattlesnake passive pve omnitank.

High slots.
5 T2 cruise missile launchers, one T2 drone link augmenter. Carry kin/therm t2 missiles, furies and precisions.

Mid slots
T2 invuln, or Dread Guristas invuln, they aren't too pricy.
Meta 4 target painter, or a second invuln to suit your comfort level. Lower activation cost and same stats as a T2.
Omnidirectional tracking link for the drones. Faction or not to suit your budget.
Passive EM ward. Guristas again, pretty cheap really.
Passive thermal ward, see above.
T2 shield extenders x 2

Low slots
Shield power relays. T2, x 4
Drone damage amps x 2 T2. Depending on fitting skills one of these may need to be a power diag for cap stability.
Change to suit.

Rigs
Large core defense field purgers, T2.

Drones.
Gecko
Gaurde T2 or faction to suit skills. x 2
Warden/Bouncer/ Curator x 2 to suit mission, I'm lazy and just leave Wardens in all the time for the huge range.
Bouncers can also be used this way.
Hob 2/ mission specific light x 5. I just leave the Hobs in, see the lazy part.

Your drone bay is now full.
219 HP/sec with no resist lower than 70%, higher resists easily attainable without sacrificing too much dps, for things like Angels Bonus room. 300 plus HP/sec and over 80% (at least) resists if mission specific fit and painter/omni traded for another invuln/specific and another shield extender.

Just under 1200 dps on this char.

On an alt, with 3 million ish SP in drones and T1 meta 4 launchers. 900 dps, not as good of damage application.

Yes you can get more dps, but for all around omni tanked /do any mission you get and not care , this is king as far as I am concerned. And you can buy and fit ( if all T2 modules), two of these for the price of ONE, unfitted, Golem.
Throw a mobile tractor in the hold to pull mission objectives in. Speedy this thing ain't.
Ammo cost is almost nothing, half the time you don't even turn the launchers on for anything less than battleships.

For Golem fits, there are lots out there. Active tank, BCU's, blah. If you need more specifics, feel free to ask, but anyone buying1.2 billion isk hulls should probably have a pretty good idea how to fit them in general.


Golem vs RS is kind of a wash, I don't see huge differences in isk/hour with either one. The Golem is arguably better for one account, the RS dual boxed with the alt either salvaging in a Noctis, or shooting stuff in whatever he can fly.


Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-01-15 04:02:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
I run a Snake on my mission alt. Its basically minimal tank relying on MJD-range-tanking for missions and its minimal T2 fit to dissuade gankers.

With 5 x T2 launchers firing CN faction cruise and T2 drones/gecko it gets between 1300 and 1500 DPS depending on the drones deployed,

The "buffed with steroids" RS drones can take a lot of damage (though its still not a great idea to let the Gecko stray more than 20-30km from your ship).

I get just over 100km drone control, 120 km targeting and about 140km cruise range (though anything outside targeting range needs FoF).

To build a high DPS MJD based Rattler you need:

- a MJD (obviously)

- You will want 5 launchers and a DLA in the highs.

- You will need at least one rigor rig.

- You need something (rig or module) to extend targeting range to a minimum of 100km

- you will want 3 DDAs and at least two (maybe 3) Ballistic Controls in the lows

- you will want at least one omni


You do need good fitting skills (and possibly implants) to get everything in.
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-01-15 13:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Unknown
Here's a theorycrafted Rattlesnake fit:

[Rattlesnake, Range tank]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Damage Control II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Warden II x2
Gecko x1
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

1282 DPS with the Gecko, 1080 with the two Wardens. The other drones are for smaller rats if they happen to close in on you (Geckos have crappy tracking even with omnis). Range tank with the MJD. Furies reach 133km; lock range is 150km. Drone range is 84km, but they'll happily engage stuff you're shooting at anyway.

Tank is light with 134k EHP omni. Resists are 80/71/78/82.

Numbers with all V skills. Costs about 1.2B fitted, but of course you can downgrade faction to suit your wallet.

Edit: I left out the damage bonuses for kinetic/thermal furies ...DPS goes up to 1516 with the Gecko and 1313 with the two Wardens (701 missile DPS).
Jasmin Molotov
Crowned in Terror
#12 - 2015-01-15 15:13:45 UTC
For the sake of completeness, here is a decent mission Golem setup: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/69238-Superior-L4-Mission-Golem-Rubicon-Update-1064-DPS.html

Personally, I would probably get rid of the MJD and replace the afterburner with an MWD, also a tractor beam to haul in the damsel. But that's all personal taste I guess...
WT Lapre
Northstar Cabal
#13 - 2015-01-15 16:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: WT Lapre
well, I bought both ships, but I am going to start using the Golem (well I already have :) ), as my drone skills suck and to pilot the rattlesnake properly and I need better drone skills. With that being said I could use some help with my Golem setup.

At the moment I am running just a basic T2 setup, which is clearing the missions fairly fast . However I know there can be room for improvement for my intented playstyle.

My current playstyle is something like: warp in, drop Baston, tank & kill.

I plan to get Caldari BCS (3-4 of them) for an increase in DPS output, so that will be covered. However, the issue that I have noticed is with tanking, specifically that once I start boosting, my cap recovery/regen is very slow. This is something that I would like to fix. I would assume that I could fix it by getting a dead space SB (where the activation cost is lower) and pair it was a shield boost amp??

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can improve this aspect of my build? Also, which rigs should I obtain and why? Thanks again!!



Here is my current setup (I haveN't equiped rig, because I am debating which ones I should get)

[Golem, PvE]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#14 - 2015-01-15 23:38:10 UTC
I am assuming your tank holds out ? you can get by with a large sb btw.. I use a large dread gusitas on mine.. they cheap..
If you getting Navy BCS's only get 3 and leave the 4th one T2, the stacking penalty makes it such that the differences between the 4th one being faction or T2 is only round 9dps.. if I remember correctly.
I also use 1 less tp and fit a 100mn mwd to get between gates. I drop an mtu and come grab loot and salvage after round an hr of running sites.
I have t2 cap rigs.

Realistically though.. changing to faction BCS's is the best you can do to make the ship better, you could missile explosion rigs.. but I haven't seen a noticeable difference, I am sure mathematically its HUGE.. but meh..

I have also found the RS not to be nearly as efficient as the golem since they no longer use sentries and gecko's\heavy drones have travel time.

... What next ??

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-01-15 23:44:48 UTC
Rigors are what most people would recommend but it does depend what you are shooting at.

If you are mainly swatting BS then a rigor will not make a huge difference. If there are swarms of cruiser/BC in your missions rigors will help.
Chicken Exroofer
Regional Assault and Recon
#16 - 2015-01-16 03:04:17 UTC
Rattlesnakes no longer use sentries....


I'm guessing you are thinking of the Gila. RS has heavy drone/sentry bonus.

I can only launch one Gecko at a time from it. But it has pretty much HAC dps. ( 680 for me, which is about 90 more than my T2 heavy missile tengu!)

On my Golem I use a faction large booster , MUCH lower activation cost than a T2 x-large. with a couple T2 shield boost amps. Two target painters, with my launchers broken in to two groups. Chuck precisions at the frigs and cruisers two targets at a time, makes for a lot less wasted damage from leaving them at 5% health. Then load up Furies for the battleships, double tp them, they pop REAL fast. Third target painter has little to no effect due to diminishing returns when used on the same target.

Throw a couple T2 cap rigs in, a low slot cap regen item, ( brainfarting on the name of the one that doesn't reduce boost amount, help me out here lol) and your Golem will be cap stable or close to it, and only need to turn bastion on rarely, for those times when you just want to agro the entire room for giggles.

You may need Marauders 4 to get enough boost bonus so you don't need to bastion very often. But that isn't that hard to train.

Have fun. Dock up if someone warps in to your mission. People have been trying a version of the CODE scam in Apanake, (SOE mission hub) by selling "licenses" to missioners. Usually by posting killmails of marauders.

Which is why not being stuck in bastion is a goodness thing, and being able to perma boost is not undesirable.
Because 20 Catalysts can indeed kill your Golem. `
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#17 - 2015-01-16 19:18:47 UTC
Chicken Exroofer wrote:
Rattlesnakes no longer use sentries....


I'm guessing you are thinking of the Gila. RS has heavy drone/sentry bonus.

I can only launch one Gecko at a time from it. But it has pretty much HAC dps. ( 680 for me, which is about 90 more than my T2 heavy missile tengu!)

On my Golem I use a faction large booster , MUCH lower activation cost than a T2 x-large. with a couple T2 shield boost amps. Two target painters, with my launchers broken in to two groups. Chuck precisions at the frigs and cruisers two targets at a time, makes for a lot less wasted damage from leaving them at 5% health. Then load up Furies for the battleships, double tp them, they pop REAL fast. Third target painter has little to no effect due to diminishing returns when used on the same target.

Throw a couple T2 cap rigs in, a low slot cap regen item, ( brainfarting on the name of the one that doesn't reduce boost amount, help me out here lol) and your Golem will be cap stable or close to it, and only need to turn bastion on rarely, for those times when you just want to agro the entire room for giggles.

You may need Marauders 4 to get enough boost bonus so you don't need to bastion very often. But that isn't that hard to train.

Have fun. Dock up if someone warps in to your mission. People have been trying a version of the CODE scam in Apanake, (SOE mission hub) by selling "licenses" to missioners. Usually by posting killmails of marauders.

Which is why not being stuck in bastion is a goodness thing, and being able to perma boost is not undesirable.
Because 20 Catalysts can indeed kill your Golem. `



My bad.. you are correct about the sentries..

... What next ??

Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-01-22 06:04:12 UTC
Surprised that no one suggested Tengu.

I use Tengu and Navy Scorpion when I mission in Caldari space. Both are more than capable and trivialize any mission.

Gila and Rattlesnake should be just fine. In fact, I'd like to try the Gila for some stuff now.
WT Lapre
Northstar Cabal
#19 - 2015-01-22 10:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: WT Lapre
Well, after a week of testing I found my fit that I am going to continue to run. It is similair to the last one that I listed, but with a few changes.

My current DPS is 891, cap stable at 38% & I am using the following missile implants: MB-705, GP-805, TN-905, RL-1005.

[Golem, Level 4 - Missions]
Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Salvage Drone I x5



The last question that I have is, How can I increase my output damage without using drones? Or do I just need to now focus on the remaining missile skills for this build?

P.S. I do plan to skill up my drones, but to get them to excellent levels, it will take me about 2 months and I don't want to wait that long to maximize this ship's output damage
Sturmwolke
#20 - 2015-01-22 11:29:13 UTC
@Post #19

Your rigs are completely wrong for a cruise Golem. It is also a trifle overtanked. You're doing a mere 80% effective dps with Fury missiles vs BSwith only 2 painters and no Rigor rigs.
Dps vs BCs and cruisers are completely nerfed if you persists with Fury missiles.

To do more damage, remove the two CCC rigs and replace with 2 T2 Rigor rigs.
Swap out the Gist-C large for a Pithum-C medium, add a 3rd painter over the Shield Boost Amp. Use Republic Fleet painters as they synergizes very well with Golem and they're dirt cheap as well.
The 4th BCS can be swapped out for a DC2 if you feel the need to increase the resists to increase the safety margin.

Stock a 100MN Core-B MWD and Mobile Depot. Pre-swap as needed and use the mobile depot if necessary to do onsite.
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