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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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The games position on scams
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2015-01-14 21:56:15 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
25th post to realise this was a troll?

Comments on the name itself but nobody realised that it was the big clue?

oh wow. Now I feel stupid. I've been trolled. Kudos to you OP.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Immersed Roflsausage
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#62 - 2015-01-14 22:28:53 UTC
Still, people are just totally off the mark and I'm losing the energy to keep focusing back at my point, people are still held up on the wrong thing. Elena Thiesant I'm not talking about in game behaviors going out, i'm talking about in game behaviors indicating what is already there outside it.

ergherhdfgh wrote:
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
Some interesting points raised thanks. An expected cross section of the EVE population represented in this thread, and by that I mean the high proportion of sociopaths vs. normal people.

I happen to think that mild sociopathic behavior is nurtured by the mechanics of the game, in those people that would otherwise be decent people in real life, due to the pressures inherent in the artificial society and the anonymity provided by it.

IDK where you live but I live in the US and can say that modern day western culture encourages sociopathy. The corporate culture is rife with it and indeed studies have proven corporate CEOs have a much higher sociopath / psychopath to non ratio than the average. This game is very much intended to simulate that.

The vast majority of what is considered PvP in this game is really just simulated victimization. It's basically like if your girlfriend is into rough **** like sex and you guys create a safe word so that 2 consenting adults can have **** like sex in a safe and legal environment and in this game the safe word is not logging in and / or playing a different game.


Immersed Roflsausage wrote:

For example, the ad hominem remark about my name indicating that I am immature and screaming to be scammed is just totally unnecessary, and frankly weird to me, but hey, this is the internet and I guess that is mild compared to some other pits on the net like 4chan. I hear often enough that you cant be a carebear in EVE and I totally get that, but reject it at the same time.

If you are that thin skinned that you get offended by people attacking your name then this game is most certainly not for you.

Isn't 4chan where the goons come from?

You can totally be a carebear in Eve. There is not much content for it and it will get old rather fast but it is possible. Those that argue against it are just trying to rationalize their in game simulated psychopathic role playing.

Immersed Roflsausage wrote:

I understand the position of CCP, and that they wish to create a free space to allow emergent behavior, but what I do notice is a lack of that thing we have in real life, and that is accountability and consequence, there are no police there are no regulatory bodies that protect customers etc. and so they are creating all of the conditions for criminals to thrive but bring no conditions designed to impose consequence.


This accountability thing you speak of I'd really like to know where you are seeing it in real life. I think you live in a dream world. Take a look around at what the western / corporate structure is doing. Theft, pillage, fraud, extortion, murder anything goes as long as you are a corporate entity. This game is very much designed around that concept and I would say as such is the closest thing that I have seen to a real world simulation than in any other game.


Immersed Roflsausage wrote:

I do also think that CCP is treading a fine line with encouraging real world fraud. They create the conditions under which a new player is likely to want to buy PLEX and so ISK to enhance their game experience and quite simply create dopamine releasing scenarios, it's MMORPG business model 101. They then allow / encourage in game behavior for players to steal ISK from those most vulnerable, who also happen to be those most likely to have spent money.

If CCP have to admit that they do not successfully police all of the real world ISK selling activity, then their failure to prohibit newbie scams (like the fake recruitment scam) is borderline contributing to fraudulent activity, real world.


I would agree that they are treading a fine line and hire lawyers to make sure they stay on the legal side of that fine line. However and again this is not really any different than any other corporation in any industry. Indeed the whole concept of law is designed to eliminate accountability. To give the framework that allows people to do things that are amoral yet "legal"


Now ergherhdfgh, don't worry I wont tarnish you by association, I still think that you take objection to a lot of things I've said, but you are the first person that has actually replied properly to me, and actually seems to understand what I'm saying, either that or I'm just drawn to the first person that hasn't been hostile by default. I'm wondering if people even remember that they can disagree but still be decent to each other. All you get now is, "well it's the internet you big baby, man the **** up" as if that's just how it is so accept it.

To address the accountability thing, i.e. where is it, I read the other day about in in game scam hatched over many years that ended with the trustees voting for new shares to be issued and then one person bought them all up, took control and ended up with $42,000 worth ISK (in PLEX terms). Accountability would be that once this is known, openly, the person that did it is taken down and jailed. In EVE everyone looks and says, wow that was a big scam, congratulations. I can see the attraction there, and it's within the game rules, I GET THAT, but to bring it back, new players don't, remember I'm talking about recruitment scams targeted at new players.

Why are people caring so much with "so what do we do about it?" "do you have a point?", I don't know, and maybe I don't, but I felt like discussing it, and last time I checked, that's what forums were designed for....
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2015-01-14 22:33:01 UTC
Your discussion is fundamentally flawed, never seen a troll this dedicated to his bridge.

You're bringing real life legislation into a game, everything that happened to you because it was allowed within game mechanics and therefore 100% legal, nothing more to it.

Art of Explosions
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#64 - 2015-01-14 22:48:32 UTC
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
Still, people are just totally off the mark and I'm losing the energy to keep focusing back at my point, people are still held up on the wrong thing. Elena Thiesant I'm not talking about in game behaviors going out, i'm talking about in game behaviors indicating what is already there outside it.

The two are disconnected. You cannot infer anything from the two personas.

"Good" and "bad" people play "good" and "bad" characters in games. "Good" and "bad" characters in games are played by "good" and "bad" people.

Also "good" and "bad" are subjective.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2015-01-14 23:03:47 UTC
Help us to understand. Tell us more about the scam you fell victim to.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2015-01-14 23:28:16 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
You're bringing real life legislation into a game, everything that happened to you because it was allowed within game mechanics and therefore 100% legal, nothing more to it.


This.


Some people just don't know the difference between RL and in game.

I wonder why those type of people are even allowed to use the internet, for the sake of their own health.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2015-01-14 23:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
Still, people are just totally off the mark and I'm losing the energy to keep focusing back at my point, people are still held up on the wrong thing. Elena Thiesant I'm not talking about in game behaviors going out, i'm talking about in game behaviors indicating what is already there outside it.



The fun part.

I know a bunch of people that play the "bad" person in EVE, but are the most friendly and helpful people in real life.
I bet, there are plenty of examples that work the opposite way.

Not to mention, just because something doesn't suit your gameplay, doesn't automatically make it bad or a bad person.
Just cause, as example, Cannibal Kane loves to wardec random corps, doesn't make him a bad person.

Hell, I can tell you, that no matter how much I might hate someone for their in game character, a very good chance that if we would meet in real life...I would happily go for a drink together and exchange stories (cause we all know, EVE is a great game in regards of nice stories to tell each other over a couple of drinks).

Hell, if it would have been possible, and I truely hope that it will at one point, I would / will go to FanFest. Not for CCP, nor for the presentations etc....but to meet the people behind the characters in EVE and exchange experiences etc.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#68 - 2015-01-14 23:34:18 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Help us to understand. Tell us more about the scam you fell victim to.


Gully, for a small fee of 200mil ISK, I will explain it to youTwisted

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Immersed Roflsausage
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#69 - 2015-01-14 23:35:13 UTC
Well i think this is futile. It would seem that you guys are just too far in to grasp what it looks like to someone from the outside, not your fault.

I think it's time for me to step out of this, depending on what comes after this, but what I will say is thankyou all for contributing to the thread, you have helped me understand the EVE community, no so much through what you have said, but the way in which you have said it and by the way that most of you act.

I now understand the game and the people within it a lot more than when I initially started this thread, to the point where I wouldn't have bloody posted it in the first place! It's done now though and time for me to move on and man up.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#70 - 2015-01-14 23:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
Still, people are just totally off the mark and I'm losing the energy to keep focusing back at my point, people are still held up on the wrong thing. Elena Thiesant I'm not talking about in game behaviors going out, i'm talking about in game behaviors indicating what is already there outside it.



By your own admission: you did something dumb in game, without thought or planning and this ( of course) went sour, that must mean that irl you're also clueless and happy to give away your money to strangers without reading the fine print.
Immersed Roflsausage
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#71 - 2015-01-14 23:40:16 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
[quote=Immersed Roflsausage]Still, people are just totally off the mark and I'm losing the energy to keep focusing back at my point, people are still held up on the wrong thing. Elena Thiesant I'm not talking about in game behaviors going out, i'm talking about in game behaviors indicating what is already there outside it.



By your own admission: you did something dumb in game, without though or planning and this ( of course) went sour, that must mean that irl you're also clueless.


This.

(Even I know how to respond to this one)
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-01-14 23:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
Well i think this is futile. It would seem that you guys are just too far in to grasp what it looks like to someone from the outside, not your fault.

I think it's time for me to step out of this, depending on what comes after this, but what I will say is thankyou all for contributing to the thread, you have helped me understand the EVE community, no so much through what you have said, but the way in which you have said it and by the way that most of you act.

I now understand the game and the people within it a lot more than when I initially started this thread, to the point where I wouldn't have bloody posted it in the first place! It's done now though and time for me to move on and man up.


Hell, feel free to ask questions (be it on fhe forums or in game through chat channels / private convos to people), but know HOW to ask them.

Look through the posting history of most of the people that replied and you will find out all of them are very helpful.

But it really depends on how you start a thread, be open to suggestion (you weren't) and be friendly (you weren't) and people will bend over backwards to help you out.

Come across as someone who just whines / rages about something and really thinks "I"m right, you all are wrong" and don't expect much sympathy or help from people. After all, we are all just players, using OUR free time to help new players, so...if we can choose between:

A. A new player that wants help and is grateful for any helping hand that reaches out to him.

B A new player that made a mistake, and blames everything and everybody but himself.


Which do you think we would love to help in our free time? Not that hard of a choice isn't it....


Again, people are usually very friendly. Hell, I know a whole bunch of gankers / pirates / war-deccers / scammers, that love to help out people with questions about how to improve themself. If asked the right way...

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2015-01-14 23:42:28 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Help us to understand. Tell us more about the scam you fell victim to.


Gully, for a small fee of 200mil ISK, I will explain it to youTwisted
Seems legit.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Immersed Roflsausage
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#74 - 2015-01-14 23:56:52 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
Well i think this is futile. It would seem that you guys are just too far in to grasp what it looks like to someone from the outside, not your fault.

I think it's time for me to step out of this, depending on what comes after this, but what I will say is thankyou all for contributing to the thread, you have helped me understand the EVE community, no so much through what you have said, but the way in which you have said it and by the way that most of you act.

I now understand the game and the people within it a lot more than when I initially started this thread, to the point where I wouldn't have bloody posted it in the first place! It's done now though and time for me to move on and man up.


Hell, feel free to ask questions (be it on fhe forums or in game through chat channels / private convos to people), but know HOW to ask them.

Look through the posting history of most of the people that replied and you will find out all of them are very helpful.

But it really depends on how you start a thread, be open to suggestion (you weren't) and be friendly (you weren't) and people will bend over backwards to help you out.

Come across as someone who just whines / rages about something and really thinks "I"m right, you all are wrong" and don't expect much sympathy or help from people. After all, we are all just players, using OUR free time to help new players, so...if we can choose between:

A. A new player that wants help and is grateful for any helping hand that reaches out to him.

B A new player that made a mistake, and blames everything and everybody but himself.


Which do you think we would love to help in our free time? Not that hard of a choice isn't it....


Again, people are usually very friendly. Hell, I know a whole bunch of gankers / pirates / war-deccers / scammers, that love to help out people with questions about how to improve themself. If asked the right way...


Point taken and acknowledged. As it happens I did look back at other posts from you guys and agree.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#75 - 2015-01-15 00:00:07 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Help us to understand. Tell us more about the scam you fell victim to.


Gully, for a small fee of 200mil ISK, I will explain it to youTwisted
Seems legit.


You're damn right.

I'm totally legit, you know that...

If not, ask your "Godfather" Blink

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2015-01-15 00:06:51 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Help us to understand. Tell us more about the scam you fell victim to.


Gully, for a small fee of 200mil ISK, I will explain it to youTwisted
Seems legit.


You're damn right.

I'm totally legit, you know that...

If not, ask your "Godfather" Blink
You mean He Who Hath Returned?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Immersed Roflsausage
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#77 - 2015-01-15 00:11:47 UTC
I just read back the first page, and tbh my second post was out of order, I think at that point I was being hyper-sensitive, reading it back I was totally unfair to refer to the people before my second post as sociopathic, as that's basically what I said lol. I'm pretty sure that was just how I felt about the git that got me. A genuine sorry to you guys. I got myself off on a bad footing and any discussion after that was just a non starter, and it was pretty much my fault lol.

I shall chalk this one up to bad judgement and continue on with my EVE life, I'm thinking maybe I'll be a pirate.....
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2015-01-15 00:21:44 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Help us to understand. Tell us more about the scam you fell victim to.


Gully, for a small fee of 200mil ISK, I will explain it to youTwisted
Seems legit.


You're damn right.

I'm totally legit, you know that...

If not, ask your "Godfather" Blink
You mean He Who Hath Returned?


I mean the one with the sexy deep voiceBig smile

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#79 - 2015-01-15 00:22:57 UTC
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
I just read back the first page, and tbh my second post was out of order, I think at that point I was being hyper-sensitive, reading it back I was totally unfair to refer to the people before my second post as sociopathic, as that's basically what I said lol. I'm pretty sure that was just how I felt about the git that got me. A genuine sorry to you guys. I got myself off on a bad footing and any discussion after that was just a non starter, and it was pretty much my fault lol.

I shall chalk this one up to bad judgement and continue on with my EVE life, I'm thinking maybe I'll be a pirate.....


You are not the first that will let emotions get the upper hand in the game...and you surely won't be the last.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#80 - 2015-01-15 00:55:32 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:
Still, people are just totally off the mark and I'm losing the energy to keep focusing back at my point, people are still held up on the wrong thing. Elena Thiesant I'm not talking about in game behaviors going out, i'm talking about in game behaviors indicating what is already there outside it.



By your own admission: you did something dumb in game, without thought or planning and this ( of course) went sour, that must mean that irl you're also clueless and happy to give away your money to strangers without reading the fine print.


Just reading this again.


I really HOPE it is not the case with me

I don't think moobs look as good at my characters boobsBlink

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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