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Dev Blog: CSM 9 - The Year In Review

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Pathogen Ascention
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-01-14 22:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pathogen Ascention
Elenahina wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
when people accuse csm members of malfeasance it always baffles me because their reaction is not "how can i get in on this by leveraging one of the largest renter alliances in the game to our favor," it's "grr those elected officials must be up to no good"


Maybe that's because people expect elected officials to hold themselves to a higher standard.

Given the history of the human race, I have no idea why they would still think that - politicians and elected officials are about two steps below the Black Death on my list of things to avoid at all costs.

But you know...some people's kids.


Thank you for pointing out that these politicians who are paid real money should hold themselves to a "higher standard" in their lives.

Wait.

I think you're posting on the wrong website, this thread is about an oversight committee for a spaceship game.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#22 - 2015-01-14 22:24:33 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-01-14 22:25:05 UTC
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
@Sion -
We need CSM members who are there for the entire player base and the health of the game.


Anybody who claims to have had the depth and breadth of experience across all aspects of the game so that they might, with an informed opinion, represent the entire playerbase is an outright liar.

An ideal CSM should be a collection of subject matter experts who, combined, represent as much of the playerbase as possible.

The CSM should cheerlead for CCP when they do things that are praiseworthy. But a CSM that does nothing but cheerlead is just a mouthpiece with no value. Something that they've been criticized for being many times.

*Snip* Removed a reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

You really should reread what I wrote. Ugh
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2015-01-14 22:29:08 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
The sad thing is that CSM should actually be a huge tool for development, provided that qualified players were on it and not just random elects. Instead, each group of CSM elects pulls in their own direction and thus the CSM leads effectively nowhere except for small victories, like the "rookie channel" (??)

It is painfully evident that CCP does not actually play their game at even half the capacity that their players do. This is demonstrated in repeated design decisions that are released and have tens or hundreds of players come constructively post how said idea is awful and needs to be changed (Like the original 5ly range max nerf on Jump Freighters? Are you kidding me?)

It would be nice if qualified CSM members actually were able to work with CCP to jointly solve issues instead of CCP just using a development dartboard and presenting what they are going to do to the CSM.

CCP has been getting on track the past multiple releases, but there is so much more potential to be had.



You do relaze that all the CSM is is an advisory council right? they can't pull or push ccp into any direction it doesnlt wish to go. All they can do is bring to the attention of ccp our issues and desires. they can yell at ccp or argue all they want. but in the end of the day, ccp can tell them to go away.

It doesn't matter WHO is on the csm, the organization is the same. CCP and CCP alone can decided to listen and take into account what the CSM gives them. The advantage to this, is you have a focused voice for the players, and a way for ccp to tell them stuff they don't want getting out, that the csm might already be able to say is a crappy idea, or work withen the confinds to get the info that its a crappy idea. But even then, ccp may still move ahead. They solve issues, but its CCP's world. And they can chose how to handle it.

The Jump Fatigue was how ccp decided to respond to everyone whining about force projection. So the old adage goes, be careful what you ask for. And based on numbers, jump fatigue is working perfectly how intended.

A better example would be the ESS which is never bloody used, and even the CSM told CCP it would never be bloody used (based on the discusstion forum) yet ccp made it anyway, and guess what... its never bloody used.


In the words of the wise and intelligible Marlona Sky:

Marlona Sky wrote:
You really should reread what I wrote. Ugh
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-01-14 23:57:52 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
A better example would be the ESS which is never bloody used, and even the CSM told CCP it would never be bloody used (based on the discusstion forum) yet ccp made it anyway, and guess what... its never bloody used.

It's not used very much because most people know it is anchored at a terrible anomaly. So what was intended to be a nice conflict driver was DOA because of that. All CCP has to do is not allow it to be placed in anomalies. Maybe not allow any form of instant payout either. But I would wait and see on that.
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2015-01-15 00:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Aryndel Vyst
Remember that one time you were really mad at goons and leaked TMC logs on failheap? But hey it's not loose lips unless it's attacking those dirty, rotten Goons though right?

I don't think it's appropriate to make your argument regarding loose lips, when there are situations that you have found yourself guilty of the same acts. It's hypocritical, and degrades your argument.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2015-01-15 00:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
ouch burn

edit: taking Marlona's advice

Marlona Sky wrote:
You really should reread what I wrote. Ugh


Someone Named Marlona Sky wrote:

You will not find private chat logs. These are only from the Jabber channel that everyone chatted in. To be frank, logs from this channel have been leaked to places for as long as it was started, but for the most part only to leadership type people of alliances or whatever. I really don't know who exactly, just that this is nothing ground breaking. The other thing is this does not cover every moment. Simply the times I was logged into Jabber. So we are talking US time zone and early Australian time zone for the week days and for the weekend the same thing along with late Euro time zone stuff. Of course thinking back I should have just let my PC run 24/7, but whatever.

The other thing is I do not expect minds to be seriously blown away. There are some days were nothing is really happening. Boring days. Pretty much echoing what was going on in EVE that day. Also there might be a few days sprinkled in where I did not log into Jabber at all. I imagine there is most likely going to be some things in there that does not show me in the best light, but to go in and delete such things would be not just a lot of searching, but in a way water down the logs. I'm sure no one is going to be running up patting me on the back or cheering for me either. lol ...
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-01-15 00:23:58 UTC
I liked it. I also think that you should ask Leeloo why only seven of the fourteen members wrote.

Anyone thinking of running in the upcoming election would be well served to read between the lines and know what they are getting into. Both the good and the bad. I am amazed at how many of the candidates are campaigin for the type of council that is a thing of the past or never existed at all.

Read, research, learn, plan.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#29 - 2015-01-15 02:37:32 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
there is some loose lips on the CSM.


This is pretty ironic coming from you, who leaked a years worth of TMC's private jabber logs on FailHeapChallenge and then went on to act as though it wasn't your responsibility to scrub out people's mentioned and listed IRL info in said logs.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#30 - 2015-01-15 02:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
Marlona Sky wrote:
You really should reread what I wrote. Ugh


I read many things that you write. Like this:

Someone Named Marlona Sky wrote:

You will not find private chat logs. These are only from the Jabber channel that everyone chatted in. To be frank, logs from this channel have been leaked to places for as long as it was started, but for the most part only to leadership type people of alliances or whatever. I really don't know who exactly, just that this is nothing ground breaking. The other thing is this does not cover every moment. Simply the times I was logged into Jabber. So we are talking US time zone and early Australian time zone for the week days and for the weekend the same thing along with late Euro time zone stuff. Of course thinking back I should have just let my PC run 24/7, but whatever.

The other thing is I do not expect minds to be seriously blown away. There are some days were nothing is really happening. Boring days. Pretty much echoing what was going on in EVE that day. Also there might be a few days sprinkled in where I did not log into Jabber at all. I imagine there is most likely going to be some things in there that does not show me in the best light, but to go in and delete such things would be not just a lot of searching, but in a way water down the logs. I'm sure no one is going to be running up patting me on the back or cheering for me either. lol ...


Those logs contained personal IRL info of many people that you didn't scrub before you released them (but have now been edited). Loose lips indeed.

I also recognize when people cheerlead CCP to try to push their own person agenda or the agenda of their alliance dressed up as altruism and I'll keep calling you out on it.

By all means; keep doing it. Just do the needful and be transparent about why you're doing it though.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-01-15 02:44:04 UTC
Aryndel Vyst wrote:
Remember that one time you were really mad at goons and leaked TMC logs on failheap? But hey it's not loose lips unless it's attacking those dirty, rotten Goons though right?

I don't think it's appropriate to make your argument regarding loose lips, when there are situations that you have found yourself guilty of the same acts. It's hypocritical, and degrades your argument.

Degrades? Not a chance! Lol
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-01-15 03:28:25 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
@Sion -

The reason why CCP is hesitant in having the CSM in the loop on major changes is because it has become very apparent to them and even the player base - there is some loose lips on the CSM. it is no secret that some CSM members are there to gain insight on upcoming changes so they and their constituents can gain an advantage. We need CSM members who are there for the entire player base and the health of the game. Not just them and theirs.

Until this changes, don't be surprised with the short notices on upcoming changes.


If you have evidence of this, I would be grateful if you'd pass it my way. Or probably even better, pass it to CCP.

On twitter @siggonK
Xander Phoena
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-01-15 08:28:18 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I liked it. I also think that you should ask Leeloo why only seven of the fourteen members wrote.

Anyone thinking of running in the upcoming election would be well served to read between the lines and know what they are getting into. Both the good and the bad. I am amazed at how many of the candidates are campaigin for the type of council that is a thing of the past or never existed at all.

Read, research, learn, plan.

m


So much this.

Also Marlona, as Sion mentions, if you have evidence of CSM impropriety, it is your duty to get that evidence to CCP as soon as possible.

www.crossingzebras.com
CCP Falcon
#34 - 2015-01-15 10:21:09 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
@Sion -

The reason why CCP is hesitant in having the CSM in the loop on major changes is because it has become very apparent to them and even the player base - there is some loose lips on the CSM. it is no secret that some CSM members are there to gain insight on upcoming changes so they and their constituents can gain an advantage. We need CSM members who are there for the entire player base and the health of the game. Not just them and theirs.

Until this changes, don't be surprised with the short notices on upcoming changes.


Have something you want to tell us?

If so, be a responsible adult and send us an email to internalaffairs@ccpgames.com instead of crowing about it on the forums.

If not, feel free to take your completely unsubstantiated rumors somewhere else, most likely to a third party bittervet forum for further discussion and conspiracy theory-crafting.

We have rules against rumor mongering and ranting here, fyi.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
CCP Leeloo
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2015-01-15 10:24:38 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I liked it. I also think that you should ask Leeloo why only seven of the fourteen members wrote.

I hope nobody thought that some parts of the blog were deleted here Smile

This was not an obligatory task for all 14 members of the council. Not everybody is a writer on the CSM as well. I think I am not the right person to ask why only seven wrote, my crystal ball is in repair Sad

CCP Leeloo | Community Developer | @ccp_leeloo | leeloo@ccpgames.com
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#36 - 2015-01-15 11:26:57 UTC
CCP Leeloo wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I liked it. I also think that you should ask Leeloo why only seven of the fourteen members wrote.

I hope nobody thought that some parts of the blog were deleted here Smile

This was not an obligatory task for all 14 members of the council. Not everybody is a writer on the CSM as well. I think I am not the right person to ask why only seven wrote, my crystal ball is in repair Sad


Since neither of you want to give any information about this subject maybe we should ask another Cool

Dear DJ Funkybacon, do you know why only seven of the fourteen members wrote in the devblog ?

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-01-15 12:44:24 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
CCP Leeloo wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I liked it. I also think that you should ask Leeloo why only seven of the fourteen members wrote.

I hope nobody thought that some parts of the blog were deleted here Smile

This was not an obligatory task for all 14 members of the council. Not everybody is a writer on the CSM as well. I think I am not the right person to ask why only seven wrote, my crystal ball is in repair Sad


Since neither of you want to give any information about this subject maybe we should ask another Cool

Dear DJ Funkybacon, do you know why only seven of the fourteen members wrote in the devblog ?


some people are hardworking and active, others................................less so.

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#38 - 2015-01-15 14:48:24 UTC
i put on my tinfoil robe and wizard hat
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-01-15 16:03:25 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
@Sion -

The reason why CCP is hesitant in having the CSM in the loop on major changes is because it has become very apparent to them and even the player base - there is some loose lips on the CSM. it is no secret that some CSM members are there to gain insight on upcoming changes so they and their constituents can gain an advantage. We need CSM members who are there for the entire player base and the health of the game. Not just them and theirs.

Until this changes, don't be surprised with the short notices on upcoming changes.


Have something you want to tell us?

If so, be a responsible adult and send us an email to internalaffairs@ccpgames.com instead of crowing about it on the forums.

If not, feel free to take your completely unsubstantiated rumors somewhere else, most likely to a third party bittervet forum for further discussion and conspiracy theory-crafting.

We have rules against rumor mongering and ranting here, fyi.


This post is why we need multi-likes.

Freelancer117 wrote:
CCP Leeloo wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I liked it. I also think that you should ask Leeloo why only seven of the fourteen members wrote.

I hope nobody thought that some parts of the blog were deleted here Smile

This was not an obligatory task for all 14 members of the council. Not everybody is a writer on the CSM as well. I think I am not the right person to ask why only seven wrote, my crystal ball is in repair Sad


Since neither of you want to give any information about this subject maybe we should ask another Cool

Dear DJ Funkybacon, do you know why only seven of the fourteen members wrote in the devblog ?

For my part, I burned out about halfway through this term due to real life and realistically if I wrote anything it'd just be "What Sion said." While being engaged is ultimately on me, the issues Sion speaks to have made it a struggle to want to.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#40 - 2015-01-15 16:54:20 UTC
Sion Kumimoto wrote:
So that's what I've been doing. I spent the first half of my term trying to illuminate player psychology from my unique position, and I spent the rest of it trying to figure out how to get the CSM and CCP in a place where such input from myself and others on various topics wouldn't be summarily dismissed out of hand.


What kind of player psychology, and what sort of unique position?

The others wrote about tremendous amounts of stuff they've worked very hard on and accomplished, while you mostly just criticized somethingsomething. From outside, this makes your term look like a personal failure, and not really issues with the CSM as an organisation.