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Dev Blog: CSM 9 - The Year In Review

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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-01-14 16:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Check out what CSM9 has to say about their busy year!

This time around as their term comes to an end, we decided that CSM members should speak directly to you about how 2014 has progressed in the form of a guest blog. With almost no edits made, we are releasing it into your hands to provide the most clear and comprehensive look at the CSM’s year from some of those who were on the council.

Please feel free to leave your feedback in this thread.

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2015-01-14 17:01:08 UTC
First!

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#3 - 2015-01-14 17:20:19 UTC
allears dot gif
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#4 - 2015-01-14 17:23:19 UTC
Quote:
Council members are in constant contact with the EVE Online dev team in order to have a front line, up to date view on features and improvements that are currently being developed for EVE. They are also responsible for bringing the opinions, concerns, suggestions and ideas of their constituents to CCP for consideration. They sign a non-disclosure agreement so we can bring even more ideas to them, many of which we may not take beyond the initial design phases.


Sometimes I wish as a small part of the constituents they represent the reverse also holds true:

The EVE Online dev teams are in constant contact with the Council members.

The long-distance-travel-changes-inbound dev blog is a very poor reflection of CCPgames working with the CSM to bring "up to date view on features and improvements", the CSM was updated less than 24 hours before CCP published the dev blog.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-01-14 17:26:56 UTC
It is nice to be able to get the unfiltered versions directly from CSM reps. I don't mean this version.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Alain Colcer
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#6 - 2015-01-14 17:39:37 UTC
Great to hear the experience told directly by the CSM members themselves, thank you for this CCP.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-01-14 18:38:51 UTC
how many new players were helped personally by CSM members and what are their thoughts

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-01-14 18:40:17 UTC
The sad thing is that CSM should actually be a huge tool for development, provided that qualified players were on it and not just random elects. Instead, each group of CSM elects pulls in their own direction and thus the CSM leads effectively nowhere except for small victories, like the "rookie channel" (??)

It is painfully evident that CCP does not actually play their game at even half the capacity that their players do. This is demonstrated in repeated design decisions that are released and have tens or hundreds of players come constructively post how said idea is awful and needs to be changed (Like the original 5ly range max nerf on Jump Freighters? Are you kidding me?)

It would be nice if qualified CSM members actually were able to work with CCP to jointly solve issues instead of CCP just using a development dartboard and presenting what they are going to do to the CSM.

CCP has been getting on track the past multiple releases, but there is so much more potential to be had.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#9 - 2015-01-14 19:17:58 UTC
Why are there only messages from 7 of the 14 members? Is it coincidence that the 7 that wrote something are the only ones running for re-election?

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-01-14 19:32:39 UTC
Two step wrote:
Why are there only messages from 7 of the 14 members? Is it coincidence that the 7 that wrote something are the only ones running for re-election?


I was more entertained by the fact that one bragged about being given tools to do more free work and another that CSM is essentially just another checkbox on their EVE career path.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#11 - 2015-01-14 19:36:41 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
The sad thing is that CSM should actually be a huge tool for development, provided that qualified players were on it and not just random elects. Instead, each group of CSM elects pulls in their own direction and thus the CSM leads effectively nowhere except for small victories, like the "rookie channel" (??)

It is painfully evident that CCP does not actually play their game at even half the capacity that their players do. This is demonstrated in repeated design decisions that are released and have tens or hundreds of players come constructively post how said idea is awful and needs to be changed (Like the original 5ly range max nerf on Jump Freighters? Are you kidding me?)

It would be nice if qualified CSM members actually were able to work with CCP to jointly solve issues instead of CCP just using a development dartboard and presenting what they are going to do to the CSM.

CCP has been getting on track the past multiple releases, but there is so much more potential to be had.



You do relaze that all the CSM is is an advisory council right? they can't pull or push ccp into any direction it doesnlt wish to go. All they can do is bring to the attention of ccp our issues and desires. they can yell at ccp or argue all they want. but in the end of the day, ccp can tell them to go away.

It doesn't matter WHO is on the csm, the organization is the same. CCP and CCP alone can decided to listen and take into account what the CSM gives them. The advantage to this, is you have a focused voice for the players, and a way for ccp to tell them stuff they don't want getting out, that the csm might already be able to say is a crappy idea, or work withen the confinds to get the info that its a crappy idea. But even then, ccp may still move ahead. They solve issues, but its CCP's world. And they can chose how to handle it.

The Jump Fatigue was how ccp decided to respond to everyone whining about force projection. So the old adage goes, be careful what you ask for. And based on numbers, jump fatigue is working perfectly how intended.

A better example would be the ESS which is never bloody used, and even the CSM told CCP it would never be bloody used (based on the discusstion forum) yet ccp made it anyway, and guess what... its never bloody used.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#12 - 2015-01-14 19:41:04 UTC
meet the new team..... same as the old team What?Cry
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#13 - 2015-01-14 20:05:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
I would very much like to see a CCP response to Sion's post. Everyone has observed the lack of significant involvement of CSM on important changes (e.g. jump fatigue, nullsec).

Does CCP actually see a useful role for CSM under the new release schedule? If so, what will be done to increase the relevance and inclusion of the CSM?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-01-14 20:38:29 UTC
@Sion -

The reason why CCP is hesitant in having the CSM in the loop on major changes is because it has become very apparent to them and even the player base - there is some loose lips on the CSM. it is no secret that some CSM members are there to gain insight on upcoming changes so they and their constituents can gain an advantage. We need CSM members who are there for the entire player base and the health of the game. Not just them and theirs.

Until this changes, don't be surprised with the short notices on upcoming changes.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#15 - 2015-01-14 20:47:40 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
@Sion -

The reason why CCP is hesitant in having the CSM in the loop on major changes is because it has become very apparent to them and even the player base - there is some loose lips on the CSM. it is no secret that some CSM members are there to gain insight on upcoming changes so they and their constituents can gain an advantage. We need CSM members who are there for the entire player base and the health of the game. Not just them and theirs.

Until this changes, don't be surprised with the short notices on upcoming changes.

[citation needed]
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-01-14 20:48:23 UTC
loose lips sink ****** ideas

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#17 - 2015-01-14 20:56:08 UTC
when people accuse csm members of malfeasance it always baffles me because their reaction is not "how can i get in on this by leveraging one of the largest renter alliances in the game to our favor," it's "grr those elected officials must be up to no good"
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2015-01-14 21:01:12 UTC
Have you actually read emails from their rental alliance?

HOW CAN ANYONE FROM THE RENTAL ALLIANCE VOTE WHEN ALL OF HER ALLIANCE EMAILS LOOK LIKE THIS!????
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-01-14 21:04:29 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
when people accuse csm members of malfeasance it always baffles me because their reaction is not "how can i get in on this by leveraging one of the largest renter alliances in the game to our favor," it's "grr those elected officials must be up to no good"


Maybe that's because people expect elected officials to hold themselves to a higher standard.

Given the history of the human race, I have no idea why they would still think that - politicians and elected officials are about two steps below the Black Death on my list of things to avoid at all costs.

But you know...some people's kids.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#20 - 2015-01-14 22:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Marlona Sky wrote:
@Sion -
We need CSM members who are there for the entire player base and the health of the game.


Anybody who claims to have had the depth and breadth of experience across all aspects of the game so that they might, with an informed opinion, represent the entire playerbase is an outright liar.

An ideal CSM should be a collection of subject matter experts who, combined, represent as much of the playerbase as possible.

The CSM should cheerlead for CCP when they do things that are praiseworthy. But a CSM that does nothing but cheerlead is just a mouthpiece with no value. Something that they've been criticized for being many times.

*Snip* Removed a reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
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