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Sentry Drones change
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2015-01-13 11:36:11 UTC
Thelonious Blake wrote:


With a single squad of bombers you can render whole ishtar fleet useless by destroying their weapons...


This doesn't work all that well a lot of the time.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-01-13 11:39:04 UTC
I have to admit, I still don't understand why we have cruisers with 125mb bandwidth. The ishtar is in a strange spot now where it has the dps of a domi with worse tracking. Doesn't make sense at all at cruiser size.

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#23 - 2015-01-13 11:53:45 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I have to admit, I still don't understand why we have cruisers with 125mb bandwidth. The ishtar is in a strange spot now where it has the dps of a domi with worse tracking. Doesn't make sense at all at cruiser size.


In another thread I proposed the following:

- drop bandwidth to 75-100m3 based on other rebalancing (also affects the Nvexor)
- remove sentry range bonus, keep the tracking one
- remove drone assigning

Problems would be solved instantly while it can still do enough ranged dps compared to other HACS.
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#24 - 2015-01-13 12:40:06 UTC
hmm this all makes sense. i never put 2 and 2 together. Ishtars have been appearing alot vs other HACs in my kill list, but I never saw them as any better than the others but I now see its because they like to nano and drop sentries, just never seemed effective in any of my scenarios as they miss like hell, ishtar gets scrammed and dies.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-01-13 12:43:40 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
yeah but how much work would it be to code....

None of us know, which is why variations on this theme have won 'Worst Recurring Stupid Comment in F&I' for three years running.

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-01-13 12:49:36 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
...

- remove ability to assign normal drones to others
...


I'd prefer to just drop this to a pilot being able to control drone interfacing + advanced drone interfacing drones in space at any one time whether they are their own or assigned drones.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#27 - 2015-01-13 13:13:21 UTC
To the OP: I've always felt that different sizes of sentries would be a neat idea, but gimping the Ishtar by forcing it to use medium sentry drones is not how you fix it.

I used to be part of the "Grr Battleship DPS on a cruiser" crowd, but when you get right down to it, the issue with Sentry Ishtars isn't their damage (which really isn't that great), it's their application. You can easily get 600-ish DPS out of a heavy drone Ishtar, yet people rarely complain about them because heavy drones are slow, take time to apply their damage from any kind of range (i.e. travel time), and, can be webbed/shot by close-range fits. They're very well balanced in the grand scheme of things.

While 600-ish DPS at close range is a good place for a HAC to be, 500-ish DPS from 100+km away that applies instantly and tracks well is what is not. It's not about sentries being broken or the Ishtar having too much bandwidth, it's about the fact that the Ishtar can project close-range DPS, instantly and with good tracking, at long ranges.

Fixing the Ishtar is easy: replace the bonuses to Drone Control Range and Sentry Drone Optimal Range with something else. Agility, drone bay*, reduced CPU for drone module usage, etc. It will still make a good Sentry platform, and it may still be pretty powerful, but without being able to apply sentry damage quite so far away, it'll be much more in line with other HACs.


*If the Ishtar gets a bonus to drone bay, the current drone bay should be scaled back such that at HAC IV, the drone bay is the same as what it currently has.

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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#28 - 2015-01-13 13:19:10 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I have to admit, I still don't understand why we have cruisers with 125mb bandwidth. The ishtar is in a strange spot now where it has the dps of a domi with worse tracking. Doesn't make sense at all at cruiser size.

It makes sense at the cruiser size because the Ishtar and the Vexor Navy Issue (the other 125mb bandwidth cruiser that nobody seems to mind) have essentially zero DPS coming from regular weapons. They rely almost entirely on their drones for damage output, whereas battleships (Domi and 'Geddon in particular) have 125mb bandwidth worth of damage bonsued drones, but also a full rack of weapons and enough slots to squeeze good DPS and tank out of everything.

The issue with Ishtar is application. It can do 500-ish DPS out to 100+km, which is kind of much for a HAC. Kill the bonuses that make the Ishtar able to do that (control range, sentry optimal), and the Ishtar suddenly becomes more like the VNI, not the subject of many a threadnaught.

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My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#29 - 2015-01-13 17:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Bronson Hughes wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I have to admit, I still don't understand why we have cruisers with 125mb bandwidth. The ishtar is in a strange spot now where it has the dps of a domi with worse tracking. Doesn't make sense at all at cruiser size.

It makes sense at the cruiser size because the Ishtar and the Vexor Navy Issue (the other 125mb bandwidth cruiser that nobody seems to mind) have essentially zero DPS coming from regular weapons. They rely almost entirely on their drones for damage output, whereas battleships (Domi and 'Geddon in particular) have 125mb bandwidth worth of damage bonsued drones, but also a full rack of weapons and enough slots to squeeze good DPS and tank out of everything.

The issue with Ishtar is application. It can do 500-ish DPS out to 100+km, which is kind of much for a HAC. Kill the bonuses that make the Ishtar able to do that (control range, sentry optimal), and the Ishtar suddenly becomes more like the VNI, not the subject of many a threadnaught.




You know, I had a big reply here, then the forum ate my post, so **** it, have a picture of a donut ring.

O
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