These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Graphics , no cockpit ...ok so.....what about windows and crew?

First post First post First post
Author
eug3nio Anninen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-01-12 13:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: eug3nio Anninen
ok i understand that
you guys do not want a cockpit

....so i would like to view my crew ( even little animations) moving around the deck of my frigate when i zoom in ....fact is that ships from space look "dead pieces of iron" , with some exception
an example: it's too difficult to put a rotating radar above the capital ships roofs (tecnically speaking ? something that make me " belive "is for real?

i'm not asking too much ....it's 2015 after all....

BTW i liked a lot the new rendering method , it's about time ,
glad to see the game evolving from a graphic side too ^^

e**ug3n[u]i**o[/u]

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-01-12 13:30:48 UTC
Your frigate has a crew off possibly 2. If any.

And I don't think that your engine room has windows...

And what deck are you even talking about? We don't have any luxury cruise liners with open top deck for people to walk on.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

eug3nio Anninen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-01-12 13:36:07 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Your frigate has a crew off possibly 2. If any.

And I don't think that your engine room has windows...

And what deck are you even talking about? We don't have any luxury cruise liners with open top deck for people to walk on.


ok sorry for frigate example ....what about capital ships^?

plus you know what i'm talking about ...your answer is easy answer ....and don't make any point...

e**ug3n[u]i**o[/u]

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-01-12 13:37:26 UTC
Thing is, how well does this scale when you have four thousand ships on the field?
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-01-12 13:49:54 UTC
If you want to go lore wise, the reason why many pod ships have very, very little crew, is because ships design to interface with the pod are also design to cut out many crew members. You no longer need fire control, because your brain takes care of that, you don't really need a bridge, because once again, your brain takes care of that, this in turn means you cut out many middle men that don't have direct control over the ship. You don't need a large team of cooks because, well, there not a large crew. You don't need janitorial service, due to the fact that there might be a total crew of 10 -50 on the average cruiser class vessel. You don't need a board/defending crew because, well, everyone down the idea of boarding crew from dust, because to be frank, many people's suggestions on boarding crew tends to leave the defender in a bad position.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#6 - 2015-01-12 15:17:16 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
If you want to go lore wise, the reason why many pod ships have very, very little crew, is because ships design to interface with the pod are also design to cut out many crew members. You no longer need fire control, because your brain takes care of that, you don't really need a bridge, because once again, your brain takes care of that, this in turn means you cut out many middle men that don't have direct control over the ship. You don't need a large team of cooks because, well, there not a large crew. You don't need janitorial service, due to the fact that there might be a total crew of 10 -50 on the average cruiser class vessel. You don't need a board/defending crew because, well, everyone down the idea of boarding crew from dust, because to be frank, many people's suggestions on boarding crew tends to leave the defender in a bad position.


Actually from what ive read pod ships can have thousands of crew as they do other things in the ship

and for the poster all of those lights usually on your ships that don't blink are windows, and the reason why everyone wants a cockpit or bridge view which is stupid when your enemy can come from any direction and you would have to change views in order to see what is where but also your bridge and all would be black as your in a pod and you use camera drones that send video information back and that information is fed into your brain so that you can "SEE" outside

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-01-12 16:54:10 UTC
Agondray wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
If you want to go lore wise, the reason why many pod ships have very, very little crew, is because ships design to interface with the pod are also design to cut out many crew members. You no longer need fire control, because your brain takes care of that, you don't really need a bridge, because once again, your brain takes care of that, this in turn means you cut out many middle men that don't have direct control over the ship. You don't need a large team of cooks because, well, there not a large crew. You don't need janitorial service, due to the fact that there might be a total crew of 10 -50 on the average cruiser class vessel. You don't need a board/defending crew because, well, everyone down the idea of boarding crew from dust, because to be frank, many people's suggestions on boarding crew tends to leave the defender in a bad position.


Actually from what ive read pod ships can have thousands of crew as they do other things in the ship

and for the poster all of those lights usually on your ships that don't blink are windows, and the reason why everyone wants a cockpit or bridge view which is stupid when your enemy can come from any direction and you would have to change views in order to see what is where but also your bridge and all would be black as your in a pod and you use camera drones that send video information back and that information is fed into your brain so that you can "SEE" outside

the only thing that has thousands of crew members are titans, and even then thats +- a lot, because the crew that IS there are onyl support crew, repair techs, the kind of people that are onyl thign to keep things operating, not to operate the thigns themselves
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#8 - 2015-01-12 17:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
It would probably be technically possible to have a couple of discreet rendered actively animated "internal" sections then render them as portals on certain parts of the ship without that big an impact.

Could be done completely client side and potentially even context themed i.e. if the target is taking damage add some sparks, smoke, more frantic crew animations, etc.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2015-01-12 17:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Someone made this neat video showing the scale of EVE ships in relation to human beings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bac6yvYzaVI

Bottom line: you probably could not make out the people inside even the smallest ships.

Edit:

Quote:
it's too difficult to put a rotating radar above the capital ships roofs (tecnically speaking ?

You mean like on the Dragoon?

I should point out that as we redesign ships we've been prone to add more animation to them, but there are a LOT of ships in the game, and generally that kind of treatment works better when it's part of the overall design plan for a hull rather than tacked-on.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-01-12 18:24:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tusker Crazinski
One- you're plugged in to your ship, you don't float around it. IVA EVE would just be a face full of capsule goo

Two- EVEs UI.... it's.. well let's face it pretty bad, now imagine doing simple things like aligning when you have to move around a bridge to do so.... keep in mind playing EVE is the art of crewing a spaceship that should take a whole crew on you're own.

Three- Like 99.999 of all sci fi games it would probably be done very wrong.

even if you have bullshit artificial gravity you're thrusters are down and the nose is up, it's space. orientation is irrelevant so you should stand against your acceleration vector.

and windows.... why would you ever put windows on a spaceship?
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2015-01-12 18:46:00 UTC
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
and windows.... why would you ever put windows on a spaceship?


Imagine you were building a real spaceship: What kind of monster would you need to be NOT to add windows?

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

FoxFire Ayderan
#12 - 2015-01-12 18:52:22 UTC

I concur.

The EVE universe seems rather dead without seeing ANY people anywhere. Other than floating corpses in space and ourselves in our captains quarters.

It would be nice if there could be some better indications of human activity. Perhaps in and around stations. The hanger could be more active.

I get that people would appear quite small in relation to most things, but that's okay. It would help us get a sense of scale. And also the 'activity' doesn't need to involve just visible human beings, but other things going on in vehicles etc... So that it appears that there is more activity going on.

I like for instance in the Caldari stations (I believe it is) where you can see the little elevators moving up and down the side of the central pillar, stopping occasionally at various floors. I've watched these for quite some time, and the movement of them seems fairly random. You can imagine humans going about their business here. This is the kind of immersion and attention to detail that really makes a difference. The ships in the distance flying by in the hangers is also an improvement in this area.

Heck even more voices would be something. Things spoken from the TV display in the CQ, or more, better articulated, and more diverse hanger background communication.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2015-01-12 19:01:46 UTC
Seriously, some good ideas here, thanks for getting a discussion started.

My intention in pointing out the scale of the ships wasn't to shoot down the idea, but more to point out that there are issues of scale in trying to represent little people walking around inside ships somehow.

If you have more ideas about what would make the world of the game seem more lived-in, please keep posting.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#14 - 2015-01-12 19:11:10 UTC
eug3nio Anninen wrote:
Some stuff explaining how the OP doesn't understand the core ideas of the game.


This is you.

You are in a capsule. This capsule is designed to directly interface with the ship and increase ship performance through said action. As a secondary function, it is a lifeboat and your last resort method of reincarnation.

If you lose control of your ship, you're dead. If your lifeboat can't go anywhere, you're dead. If you cannot zombie your butt off to a random station hundreds of light years away, you're super dead.

So, would you want to put your capsule close to the surface of the hull? No, putting your most vulnerable part on display is bad.

Would you want to put a window on this capsule so you can see out of it? No, there are only bulkheads out there. (Plus being aware of floating in goop ground up from the bodies of other human beings with tons of cables sticking into you doesn't sound pleasant and probably very distracting)

So, would you want windows for your little janitor buddies on your ship? Not really, those are structural weak points if they're made from a material less hardy than the hull. If those blinky lights are windows, I'd chalk it up to the legacy of the ship being originally designed for a full crew.

So, in essence, crews are not considered important to players(capsuleers) in EVE because they are not important to player(capsuleer) performance. The crew that exist in lore are glorified janitors. Officers would only slow you down.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#15 - 2015-01-12 19:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
I'd like if Eve would scale down to the level where you could suspect a single person without sitting in front of a single polygon of your ship's hull... Would also guess that the *alive*-feeling would benefit from general inconsequent traffic around stations/common warp routes and so on. Like little ships, shuttles, small haulers etc., so small they count as dots in space and are pushed aside when you rush through them! They could bump away or even occasionally explode on your hull when you're in armor.

Something different:

In the movie *the aviator* (I believe), the problematic of having no other reference objects to your ship makes it all look a bit dead and *not-really-moving*. In the case of that filmcrew, they solved it by only filming with moderate-poor weather conditions: clouds and stuff.

So if you really wanted some better feeling for size of your ship, it's velocity and so on in outer space, you need some nifty dustclouds around your ship with proper behaviour, or just any sort of debris or not-moving things as a reference point. Currently there are only some stripes that don't really help grasping your ship's dimensions.

ED: While you're at it, how about some depth of field (if you're looking at your ship in some narrow angle, the front part would be crisp and the rear part would be washed out/blurred)! Pirate
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#16 - 2015-01-12 19:27:30 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:

I concur.

The EVE universe seems rather dead without seeing ANY people anywhere. Other than floating corpses in space and ourselves in our captains quarters.

It would be nice if there could be some better indications of human activity. Perhaps in and around stations. The hanger could be more active.

I get that people would appear quite small in relation to most things, but that's okay. It would help us get a sense of scale. And also the 'activity' doesn't need to involve just visible human beings, but other things going on in vehicles etc... So that it appears that there is more activity going on.

I like for instance in the Caldari stations (I believe it is) where you can see the little elevators moving up and down the side of the central pillar, stopping occasionally at various floors. I've watched these for quite some time, and the movement of them seems fairly random. You can imagine humans going about their business here. This is the kind of immersion and attention to detail that really makes a difference. The ships in the distance flying by in the hangers is also an improvement in this area.

Heck even more voices would be something. Things spoken from the TV display in the CQ, or more, better articulated, and more diverse hanger background communication.



Before Incarnia, there was an idea, it was called the "Ambulation Project" It was talked about as far back as 05 I think, shortly after CCP bought WW. One of the ideas they were thinking of doing, is when you walked around, to say the general area outside your corp hangers and personal hangers, that you could walk up to railing and look down at all the peons mingling. We are pod pilots, we are immortals, none immortals are like ants. We really do not give a flying **** about most of them. That was something CCP mentoned they would like to show. We are the gods, in our own section of a station, looking down and the mortals as they go about there pathedic little lives.

Then some changes happened, and Ambulation for scrapped a few times, and re worked, and we got incarnia. I want Ambulation back.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#17 - 2015-01-12 19:33:25 UTC
Ships crews have been suggested numerous times, as ways to add modifiers to ships. Like if you hire a bunch of engr's you could rep your ship x% faster. Or hire navigators and move x% faster, or hire more 'gunners' who maintained the guns and you could fire x% more.

I think the ides has merit, but it adds complexity. The problem really is this. We are gods. We do not care about mortals. We bend them to our will in the ships they crew, and we could care less if they all die.

I have never really cared who was in my ship. Nor if they can see.

Windows in hangers would be nice, but I don;'t need them in my ship. Things like what SC wants to do, don't make sense in eve. Your crew is not something that's important. It can be, but like the old ideas of refining corpse to make implants, or salvaging damaged implants from bodies, or atmospheric flight, or PI that is suppose to work with dust/legion, and countless other ideas, they collect dust. Maybe they will be relooked at, but overall, they are not needed in the slightest.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#18 - 2015-01-12 19:39:13 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Seriously, some good ideas here, thanks for getting a discussion started.

My intention in pointing out the scale of the ships wasn't to shoot down the idea, but more to point out that there are issues of scale in trying to represent little people walking around inside ships somehow.

If you have more ideas about what would make the world of the game seem more lived-in, please keep posting.


Just off the cuff.

Make random NPC ships that look like they're going somewhere. So a ship would undock from a station, and autopilot to another station and then dock. Could be in the same system, could be in a different system. This would add more "background events" to the game.

Interfering with them would, of course, incur the same penalties as shooting the peddlar ships you see undocking occasionally (I forget what those are).

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#19 - 2015-01-12 19:40:23 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
and windows.... why would you ever put windows on a spaceship?


Imagine you were building a real spaceship: What kind of monster would you need to be NOT to add windows?

Given the harshness of our universe, I might consider no windows, and instead cameras and holographic view screens that look like windows, using the holographic capabilities to give an illusion of depth. That way even crew stationed deep inside the ship could have a "window".

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#20 - 2015-01-12 19:43:43 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Seriously, some good ideas here, thanks for getting a discussion started.

My intention in pointing out the scale of the ships wasn't to shoot down the idea, but more to point out that there are issues of scale in trying to represent little people walking around inside ships somehow.

If you have more ideas about what would make the world of the game seem more lived-in, please keep posting.

There is always the obvious:

Finish Incarna. Allow us to interact with players and NPC's in person at establishments.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

123Next pageLast page