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Nasty Gift Package
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#1 - 2015-01-12 16:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikk Narrel
Modifications and Clarified points:
Clarified: This is still a jet can, and expires after the normal duration.
Clarified: Can it be scooped by the owner?
The owner CAN scoop it.
To further clarify, this item will defuse the moment the owner either leaves the system or docks in an outpost.
(Sitting in a POS let's the item remain armed)
A defused item could be scooped by ANYONE.

Modified: Many things are not healthy for new players, blocking them from use in starting systems along with the other items already under such terms, seems a practical step.


A device which is intended to be placed inside of an ejected can.

This device, so long as it is the only object present in the jet can, becomes active after ejection.

It arms itself, changes the flag to whatever line the player entered, and marks itself as unclaimed.

It is a trap, anyone besides the true owner who opens the jet can is subject to an explosive short range charge.

Possibly, this could alternately be an effect such as cap drain, or warp scrambling for a set duration.


Possible uses include:
Place near other jet cans, and set the flag to mimic them so the expected player mistakes it for a can they expected to find.
(The trap is for non-thieves here)

Place the can amongst your own, and mix it in with cans to be protected.
(The trap is to make thieves regret opening other's cans)

Place the can with a name expected from free for all objects, in space where exploration is expected.
(You just made a nasty easter egg)

What limits should this have, if any, in order to be good for gameplay?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2 - 2015-01-12 16:09:02 UTC
Honestly, why? What purpose would this serve?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3 - 2015-01-12 16:11:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Honestly, why? What purpose would this serve?

Indirect violence makes the game less predictable.

Predictability, in my view, is a negative aspect for MMOs, as well as many other types of games.

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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-01-12 16:51:50 UTC
mines were removed from the game for a similar reason, namely you randomly dying with no effort from a player in a way you cannot see or predict and any form. (there was also the load/concord issues, but this was the third)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2015-01-12 17:03:39 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
mines were removed from the game for a similar reason, namely you randomly dying with no effort from a player in a way you cannot see or predict and any form. (there was also the load/concord issues, but this was the third)


IIRC this was not a problem with mines as they showed up on the overview. (oc this was a long time ago and i had only started about 3 months b4 they were removed)



however i don't see these getting much use

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2015-01-12 17:29:40 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
mines were removed from the game for a similar reason, namely you randomly dying with no effort from a player in a way you cannot see or predict and any form. (there was also the load/concord issues, but this was the third)


IIRC this was not a problem with mines as they showed up on the overview. (oc this was a long time ago and i had only started about 3 months b4 they were removed)



however i don't see these getting much use

True for some, I grant.

Many players are unlikely to use every single feature in a game, often picking the skills and ship items they feel fit their play style best.

These devices would have time limits, as they pop out of existence just like any other jet can after a limited amount of time.

For those who do choose to place their Pandora's boxes, however, I think these might just be useful.

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-01-12 17:42:36 UTC
I don't mean i don't see them getting much use from every player i mean unless they are aloud in HS i don't see many people using them


and if they are aloud in HS even i feel this would not be healthy for new players

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2015-01-12 17:49:27 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
I don't mean i don't see them getting much use from every player i mean unless they are aloud in HS i don't see many people using them


and if they are aloud in HS even i feel this would not be healthy for new players


Many things are not healthy for new players, blocking them from use in starting systems along with the other items already under such terms, seems a practical step.

As for use in HS, unless specified otherwise as the line above, I would certainly expect them there.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#9 - 2015-01-12 17:53:58 UTC
How large is this thing and how much damage does it do? If it pins you in place, how long does that hold? Does it trigger a suspect flag? Combat timer? How much does the trap cost? Can it be scooped by the owner? Does the owner incur any risk for deploying it?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2015-01-12 18:26:12 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
How large is this thing and how much damage does it do? If it pins you in place, how long does that hold? Does it trigger a suspect flag? Combat timer? How much does the trap cost? Can it be scooped by the owner? Does the owner incur any risk for deploying it?


How large is this thing and how much damage does it do?
The size I had considered was about 75m3, placing it as the same size as ammo for a bomb launcher.
If it should end up having more than one size, then I would set that as the medium size.
As to damage, I would suggest 500 explosive damage.
(Again, making this the medium should sizes become wanted)

If it pins you in place, how long does that hold?
No direct pinning effect, but a warp scramble effect lasting 30 seconds for the specific ship triggering it.

Does it trigger a suspect flag?
The player setting the device will have a suspect flag, should the device be triggered by someone not flagged.
(Treat the trap setter as having fired on the target, meaning the status of that player is considered the same way)

Combat timer?
This would be considered the same as firing on the other player.

How much does the trap cost?
That is going to be a balance item, but I suggest average to be around 150,000 ISK

Can it be scooped by the owner?
The owner CAN scoop it.
To further clarify, this item will defuse the moment the owner either leaves the system or docks in an outpost.
(Sitting in a POS let's the item remain armed)
A defused item could be scooped by ANYONE.

Does the owner incur any risk for deploying it?
In the event the device is triggered while the owner is near potentially hostile players, and suddenly becomes suspect flagged, he may explode due to being fired on.

The scooping question in particular is creating a modification to the OP, this should be clarified to all.

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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#11 - 2015-01-12 18:35:10 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
mines were removed from the game for a similar reason, namely you randomly dying with no effort from a player in a way you cannot see or predict and any form. (there was also the load/concord issues, but this was the third)


IIRC this was not a problem with mines as they showed up on the overview. (oc this was a long time ago and i had only started about 3 months b4 they were removed)



however i don't see these getting much use



They did show up on overview, but they were placed at the spots where the gate spawned you (it's different now), so you were blown up as soon as you loaded grid. All entrances to a system were bombed, so you had zero chance of getting in a system alive.

On topic: I don't think the game needs another means of can shinanigans. There are much better ways to explode folks. If you'd like to see some, hit me up in game. We're recruiting!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#12 - 2015-01-12 18:47:15 UTC
I had to 'Like' your post.
Your positive attitude is admirable, even if you do feel my idea is unnecessary.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
...

On topic: I don't think the game needs another means of can shinanigans. There are much better ways to explode folks. If you'd like to see some, hit me up in game. We're recruiting!


You MAY be right, at least as far as some players could be concerned.

My view is that this will create greater uncertainty opening the next can found sitting around.
I think that adds a desirable flavor to things.

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-01-12 20:39:24 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Predictability, in my view, is a negative aspect for MMOs, as well as many other types of games.

Players are a source of unpredictability. We don't need to be forced to gamble on whether or not our game interface is giving us correct info.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#14 - 2015-01-12 20:58:18 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Predictability, in my view, is a negative aspect for MMOs, as well as many other types of games.

Players are a source of unpredictability. We don't need to be forced to gamble on whether or not our game interface is giving us correct info.

I am sorry, but I think we both know the interface is not the focal point of this idea.

Noone is forcing anyone to gamble, as you described it.

If you find a can, and you don't know what is in it, there is a reasonable expectation that it is not something you placed directly.
That would make it a mystery.

Now, we currently get two results from opening these containers.

1. Something we want
OR
2. Something we don't care anything about.

I want to add more possibilities, for these little bundles of joy.

3. Boom.

And the best part, aligning neatly with your observation that players are the source of unpredictability, is that players will be the distinct source of this aspect of it as well.

More variety for all.

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Bobsled Nutcase Motsu
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-01-12 21:02:45 UTC
Ok, lets just say you find someone else's jetcan.

Can you substitute one of these surprise packages for the original content?
And if so, what happens when thy open it? Do they become the valid owners, and are safe?
If they are safe, but a third party or even the bomber opens it after, does the jetcan owner get suspect flagged for bombing someone else?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#16 - 2015-01-12 23:11:06 UTC
Bobsled Nutcase Motsu wrote:
Ok, lets just say you find someone else's jetcan.

Can you substitute one of these surprise packages for the original content?
And if so, what happens when thy open it? Do they become the valid owners, and are safe?
If they are safe, but a third party or even the bomber opens it after, does the jetcan owner get suspect flagged for bombing someone else?

Yeah.... but no, this won't work.

The closest you could come to that, would be trying to duplicate the original can's name line.
You would need to eliminate the original can as well, or else it would probably stand out as a second can.

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