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Serpentis Ships
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Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-12-17 04:46:47 UTC
Why are the serpentis ships Gall-Minmatar rather than Gal-Caldari?

Yea, I get that serpentis hires angel cartel, and angel cartel is gal-min... but the lore makes it quite clear Serpentis is a Caldari and Gallente corp.


Also... the daredevil...
The other Serpentis ships are based on a Gallente hull, this one is not.

The others have drone bays equal to their base hull...
If the daredevil had a base hull, it would have at least a 5m3 drone bay, as all gall frigs have at least 5 m3 of drone bay space.
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2011-12-17 08:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Lore Reasons for both questions.

The Angel Cartel is the military and security force behind Serpentis. Well Serpentis itself is Gal-Cal (Mostly Gal) it's Military is not. There Ships are Designed by the Angel Cartel. They are paid to defend Serp assets and attack there enemies. I would venture the reason they use Gallente Hulls is so they can try blend in as a Security Force when not Pirating.

Guardian Angels: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Guardian_Angels_%28NPC_corporation%29

The Daredevil is also an Angel Cartel Ship, the particular type is used by there Guardian Angel Counterparts. It got the Minmatar Frigate side of the families Drone Bay. The reason the model is not used is most likely the same reason you see no NPC Blood Ashimmu and Cruor. Because the Devs hate me.

Daredevil Show Info wrote:
Guardian Angel engineers created it to serve as a defensive complement to the Cartel's Dramiel frigate.


Edit: Code Parsing... =/
OfBalance
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-17 08:21:16 UTC
The guristas need an evil twin corp such at that. One that can focus on missiles rather than drones and damage bonus rather than tanking.

"The X engineers created it to serve as an offensive complement to the Guristas over-tanked ship Y."

Make it happen CCP! Twisted
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-12-17 08:35:36 UTC
Then why have separate ship designs between Serpentis ships, and Angel ships?

I was under the impression that Serpentis had its own assets (like the coreli/corelum/Core ___ and Serpentis overseer type ships) and they additionally hired angel cartel ships to bolster their ranks.
They come from serpentis LP stores, Serpentis is lead by Caldari, seems to me they should have a caldari bonus, I don't see why the bonus is assigned to minmatar.


The Vindi/Vigilant/Daredevil line of ships has a common design focus (hybrids, blaster focuses perhaps, and a web strength bonus), and if 2 of 3 are gallente hull based with a good drone complement, then I still wonder why they don't throw on a 5m3 drone bay
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-12-17 08:35:52 UTC
Then why have separate ship designs between Serpentis ships, and Angel ships?

I was under the impression that Serpentis had its own assets (like the coreli/corelum/Core ___ and Serpentis overseer type ships) and they additionally hired angel cartel ships to bolster their ranks.
They come from serpentis LP stores, Serpentis is lead by Caldari, seems to me they should have a caldari bonus, I don't see why the bonus is assigned to minmatar.


The Vindi/Vigilant/Daredevil line of ships has a common design focus (hybrids, blaster focuses perhaps, and a web strength bonus), and if 2 of 3 are gallente hull based with a good drone complement, then I still wonder why they don't throw on a 5m3 drone bay
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2011-12-17 08:50:28 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Then why have separate ship designs between Serpentis ships, and Angel ships?

Legitimacy. Angel Cartel Ships are known Pirate Ships. Serpentis Ships are legal looking hulls much like how many Pirates Sailed Ships that looked like and had the Paper Work of Legitimate Warships / Transports / Fishing Boats Ect.

Verity Sovereign wrote:

I was under the impression that Serpentis had its own assets (like the coreli/corelum/Core ___ and Serpentis overseer type ships) and they additionally hired angel cartel ships to bolster their ranks.

Nope all of those are Angel Ships. Serpentis hires out from Private Security Firms like most large Corporations. Who they chose is kind of shocking.

Verity Sovereign wrote:

They come from serpentis LP stores, Serpentis is lead by Caldari, seems to me they should have a caldari bonus, I don't see why the bonus is assigned to minmatar.

Doesn't change the fact that there Security Force is Angel Cartel run. Serpentis could not care less that there Ships are co-designed by the Minmatar Cartel as long as they work. They will still give you them if you help there Corporation out.

Verity Sovereign wrote:

The Vindi/Vigilant/Daredevil line of ships has a common design focus (hybrids, blaster focuses perhaps, and a web strength bonus), and if 2 of 3 are gallente hull based with a good drone complement, then I still wonder why they don't throw on a 5m3 drone bay

Because the 3rd is not. You can see it in Missions sporting Autocannons. They probably only modified the Weapons and forgot about the Drones entirely. They are not Gallente Military so they care little about the single Drone all Gal designers put it.
Songbird
#7 - 2011-12-17 15:30:13 UTC
I think the daredevil is actually an angel hull. If you do fight serpentis as NPC's you'll never see DD's. You will see gallente frigates - including gallente newbie frigate. Angel ambusher(as an example) on the other hand is a daredevil hull. And yeah - most angel ships are pretty wells stocked with drones. But daredevil seems to be hybrid web only boat. in fact if it wasn't it wold probably be OP.
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#8 - 2011-12-17 17:41:08 UTC
Songbird wrote:
I think the daredevil is actually an angel hull. If you do fight serpentis as NPC's you'll never see DD's. You will see gallente frigates - including gallente newbie frigate. Angel ambusher(as an example) on the other hand is a daredevil hull. And yeah - most angel ships are pretty wells stocked with drones. But daredevil seems to be hybrid web only boat. in fact if it wasn't it wold probably be OP.

cough* IT ******* OP* cough
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#9 - 2011-12-18 09:45:42 UTC
There are no 'Serpentis' ships.

All of the ships you call 'Serpentis' are actually classified as 'Guardian Angels' ships by CCP (check the last Alliance Tournament specifications for example).

Lore wise, Serpentis are a pharmaceutical company that manufactures and packages boosters and work on R&D of various kind. They live in a symbiosis with the Angel Cartel (but now and then employ other corporations to their aid) whose Guardian Angels take care of training Serpentis military squads, designing their ships (Daredevil/ Vigilant/ and Vindicator), and even 'Serpentis' officers you find in Fountain in their pimped Vindicators(Brynn, Cormack and Setelle) are actually Guardian Angels. Safe to assume all of Serpentis' actual military operations are led and organized by the Guardians, ergo the same ship bonus as Archangels/Salvation Angels designed ships (Dramiel/Cynabal/Machariel)

Tautological discourse, trust me, I'm roleplaying an Angel Cartel loyalist for 2 years now ^_^
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-12-18 17:48:42 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
There are no 'Serpentis' ships.

All of the ships you call 'Serpentis' are actually classified as 'Guardian Angels' ships by CCP (check the last Alliance Tournament specifications for example).

Lore wise, Serpentis are a pharmaceutical company that manufactures and packages boosters and work on R&D of various kind. They live in a symbiosis with the Angel Cartel (but now and then employ other corporations to their aid) whose Guardian Angels take care of training Serpentis military squads, designing their ships (Daredevil/ Vigilant/ and Vindicator), and even 'Serpentis' officers you find in Fountain in their pimped Vindicators(Brynn, Cormack and Setelle) are actually Guardian Angels. Safe to assume all of Serpentis' actual military operations are led and organized by the Guardians, ergo the same ship bonus as Archangels/Salvation Angels designed ships (Dramiel/Cynabal/Machariel)

Tautological discourse, trust me, I'm roleplaying an Angel Cartel loyalist for 2 years now ^_^


Well, in game, I always had the impression that Serpentis had its own ships. The naming conventions are different from the Angel ships, the designs are Gallente, which points to Serpentis origin and not Angel cartel.
After all, in game the ships drop serpentis tags, not angel tags...
Bought from Serpentis LP stores... etc

But it is true that the hull design for the Daredevil is only seen with Angel faction ships/ when the angel cartel is listed as the enemy faction in the mission.
Its not seen when the serpentis faction is listed as the enemy in the mission.
I suppose a 4th Angel pirate ship isn't needed, and with a design as cool as that (IMO, its aesthetically better than the Dramiel, and one of the best looking, if not the best, frigates/ships in the game), I'm glad they didn't have it go to waste an put it in with the "Serpentis" ship line, with a "serpentis" line of bonuses.
I'd just be a tad bit happier if it had a drone.

Julia Connor wrote:
Songbird wrote:
I think the daredevil is actually an angel hull. If you do fight serpentis as NPC's you'll never see DD's. You will see gallente frigates - including gallente newbie frigate. Angel ambusher(as an example) on the other hand is a daredevil hull. And yeah - most angel ships are pretty wells stocked with drones. But daredevil seems to be hybrid web only boat. in fact if it wasn't it wold probably be OP.

cough* IT ******* OP* cough


It is basically the most expensive frigate now, which is due to supply and demand, and OP things are in demand.

With its +200% damage bonus (300% total), its 2 turrets do the damage of 6 normal turrets.
If the bonus were decreased to +150%, then its 2 turrets would only do the damage of 5 normal turrets.
At which point adding a light drone (the equivalent of 1 light turret) would bring it roughly back to where it was.

I admit just flat out adding a 5m3 drone bay without taking anything from it would definitely be OP'd.
Alara IonStorm
#11 - 2011-12-18 18:02:15 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:

Well, in game, I always had the impression that Serpentis had its own ships. The naming conventions are different from the Angel ships, the designs are Gallente, which points to Serpentis origin and not Angel cartel.
After all, in game the ships drop serpentis tags, not angel tags...
Bought from Serpentis LP stores... etc

That impression is wrong those ships and crew belong To The Angel Cartel. They handle security for the Serpentis Corperation, instead of starting there own Military Wing they hired out to the Angels.

There is no Serpentis origin. Serpentis territory is in Gallente Space so they use Gallente hulls where they are sold. They are just modified by the Angels by guess what "Minmatar Technology" and flown by Angel Pilots who handle Serpentis Security.

Serpentis is not a Military, they are a Drug Company whose illegal activity requires one to protect there assets and sell/transport there forbidden but profitable wears. Angle is the largest disreputable faction who will work with them. If they had gone with Mordus Legion they would be Galldari Hulls but they did not. They hired Angel.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#12 - 2011-12-19 09:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Leopold Caine
Verity Sovereign wrote:

Well, in game, I always had the impression that Serpentis had its own ships. The naming conventions are different from the Angel ships, the designs are Gallente, which points to Serpentis origin and not Angel cartel.
After all, in game the ships drop serpentis tags, not angel tags...
Bought from Serpentis LP stores... etc


Vindicator in game description wrote:
Basing their design on the Federation Navy's much-vaunted Megathron, the Guardian Angels' engineers set out to create a battleship that would instill fear in anyone fool enough to square off against the Cartel or its Serpentis protectorate. Based on the reputation this ship has engendered, they seem to have succeeded admirably.


Vigilant in game description wrote:
The Vigilant was the first Gallente design the Guardian Angels would steal and make their own, but it wouldn't be the last. Building on the Thorax's natural strengths, it is a deadly vessel both by itself and in fleet tandem. A group of these sluggers is a sight to fear.


In game the ships drop serpentis tags and stuff is bought from Serpentis stores so the Gallente pilots could have a sort of an enemy (with inherent weakness to Thermal damage and such). Lore wise, all of these 'Serpentis' in game are organized and ran by the Guardian Angels, but I suppose for the sake of convenience CCP decided to give them more leverage than they actually have for the sake of Gallente having some sort of an 'enemy' faction in their space without making it too complicated. Lorewise, Serpentis are just a bunch of pharmaceuts cooking meth while Angels take care of the shipments and protection.

Quote:
The Guardian Angels is a division of the Angel Cartel that are today exclusively occupied with guarding Serpentis space stations. The Serpentis Corporation pays the Angel Cartel handsomely for the protection, that is strong enough to keep even the DED at bay.


Also, the statistics from the AT9, showing ships by race with 'Angel Cartel' and 'Guardian Angel' for both ship races respectively: http://at.eve-ic.net/9/?view=statistics&tab=race
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc