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stratios or t3 ?
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Adolph Weltschmerz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-01-09 18:21:04 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
Tengu is NOT a great all purpose gank ship. You'de really need to be selective.


I'm ganking anything from frigates to RR-BS gangs with a 100mn HAMgu, let me tell you: it is the one generalist you can buy for ISK. No other ship has a 500+ ehp/s one-slot tank, 750+ dps and goes 2.5km/s with an AB on.
It requires a scout/linkalt though.

If you're solo, just get a stratios (both shieldfit and singlerep, like centum c-type, work fine) and make sure you got a point and not a scram. Refit to scram when you're expecting to go up against MJD'ing ships, in that case keep point and burn in for a single scramactivation when you see the MJD animation light up.

Taking a stratios into scramrange is how people lose their ships.


Feel like posting your tengu fit?

A
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#22 - 2015-01-09 20:11:40 UTC
Torothin wrote:


No just no. If you're going to hunt with a Loki you need to go with an XL ancil shield booster and dedicate your lows to gyros and a nano.


There's always more than one-way to skin a cat. Armor Loki can easily get 80-130k ehp, which is plenty to outlast most T1 ships. What happens when your X-LASB has to reload? Also, armor affords the dual-web arty fit to sit out beyond the reach many other weapon systems, or forces them to use low-damage ammo.

I fly the Proteus and recently the Stratios, myself, but I've seen armor Loki's do great work. Don't knock it till you try it...
Sylveria Relden
#23 - 2015-01-10 01:28:40 UTC
Value per isk alone- Stratios is your ship. Lots of base bonuses for everything, really decent tank, etc. If you've got good drone skills it's really going to shine for you. If not, well... T3 is more likely going to be better.

By the time you soak up expenses with just hull and subsystems alone for the T3 you've blown enough to buy 3-4 Stratios hulls. (Not to mention no subsystem SP loss, etc... ok, well I just did mention it) If isk is really no object- and you don't care about SP loss then T3 is always an option.

I also look at it this way, too- Stratios being least expensive if you try it and lose or it doesn't work- you're not out 500m+ minimum just for a hull alone. :)

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)
Aroye
Mechvale Planetside Productions
#24 - 2015-01-10 02:14:35 UTC
Torothin wrote:
A cloaky/nulli Loki can hunt in almost any region and has the damage types to be an extremely effective ganking ship of you're strictly targeting ratters. Proteus is good but restricted on damage types. If you have the skills and by skills I mean good skills the Loki is a great choice for solo/cloaky ganking. You will also need hard wiring implants if you choose to go the Loki route.

There is a guy I play with that can take down ratting battleships solo in his 425 cloaky/nulli loki. The next choice is the Stratios. While having great DPS it is also not nullified thus leading to your demise eventually when you hit that camp and or bubble. There are also stealth bombers which can solo ishtars and battleships. I am surprised you have not considered that as an option.


I have so many fantastic solo stealth bomber kills that I lost count. It's just about all I fly these days. But I want to expand my kill spectrum. A stealth bomber is useless against a lot of ships I run into.

Btw, how do kill an Ishtar with a stealth bomber? It's a drone ship!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#25 - 2015-01-10 09:53:12 UTC
Aroye wrote:


Btw, how do kill an Ishtar with a stealth bomber? It's a drone ship!

with difficulty.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-01-10 11:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Knuckles
cloaky proteus:
441 dps with void, cold. 534 tank (cold), 33k ehp, no cap warfare. there are probably mroe effective fits, i'm not an expert on cloaky proteus, but this one's good enough and largely used. Also pretty pricey

stratios:
728 dps cold with 4 pulse lasers, 656 if you drop 2 lasers and slap some nasty cap warfare. 530 tank (cold) with strong exile (not a choice for a proteus, can't risk the tracking penalty), 17k ehp. faster than proteus, can select damage with drones losing some dps. Or go with an insane >1000 tank trading for a sub 500 dps. Also less pricey


basically, no reason not to fly stratios unless you need interdiction nullifier (low sec, or you have a scout)
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#27 - 2015-01-10 15:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
Tengu is NOT a great all purpose gank ship. You'de really need to be selective.


I'm ganking anything from frigates to RR-BS gangs with a 100mn HAMgu, let me tell you: it is the one generalist you can buy for ISK. No other ship has a 500+ ehp/s one-slot tank, 750+ dps and goes 2.5km/s with an AB on.
It requires a scout/linkalt though.

If you're solo, just get a stratios (both shieldfit and singlerep, like centum c-type, work fine) and make sure you got a point and not a scram. Refit to scram when you're expecting to go up against MJD'ing ships, in that case keep point and burn in for a single scramactivation when you see the MJD animation light up.

Taking a stratios into scramrange is how people lose their ships.


Feel like posting your tengu fit?

A


It's a regular 5 launcher HAMgu... Second web is sometimes a scram or an invuln depending on how much return fire or mjd is expected. Needs a 5% PG imp. Wouldn't do *Elite-solo-pvp* with it, but it's very good for ganking ships with poor tracking running sleeper sites.

Quote:
[Tengu, ****]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Core B-Type 100MN Afterburner
True Sansha Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium 'Gattotte' Capacitor Booster
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


The one super-important but overlooked thing:
14.5sec aligntime, 3.5km/s OH, 64mil mass --> Makes Rattles fly about 20km. Hit two bumps and you got all the time in the world without reps boatin back into range.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#28 - 2015-01-10 21:48:29 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
cloaky proteus:
441 dps with void, cold. 534 tank (cold), 33k ehp, no cap warfare. there are probably mroe effective fits, i'm not an expert on cloaky proteus, but this one's good enough and largely used. Also pretty pricey

stratios:
728 dps cold with 4 pulse lasers, 656 if you drop 2 lasers and slap some nasty cap warfare. 530 tank (cold) with strong exile (not a choice for a proteus, can't risk the tracking penalty), 17k ehp. faster than proteus, can select damage with drones losing some dps. Or go with an insane >1000 tank trading for a sub 500 dps. Also less pricey


basically, no reason not to fly stratios unless you need interdiction nullifier (low sec, or you have a scout)


Mmm, I disagree with that last statement. I'm no expert either, but what I do know I learned the hard way.

A Cov-ops Proteus fit entirely with T2 modules should be getting 550dps minimum, cold. 3% surgical strike and 5% med hybrid implants are fairly cheap and push you through 630dps. Active-repping a Proteus for PvP is inadvisable, I think. Too easy to get alpha'ed through or ganged up on by reinforcements. A solid T2 buffer tank (including T2 rigs) can easily push beyond 100,000 ehp. These things considered, I think you get what you pay for.

Also, the Proteus hull and subsystems are much higher priced than the last time I looked, and the Stratios has been coming down in price a bit very recently.

I'd advise to choose between ships based on the style of combat you prefer.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-01-10 22:53:54 UTC
Fenris Orion wrote:
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
cloaky proteus:
441 dps with void, cold. 534 tank (cold), 33k ehp, no cap warfare. there are probably mroe effective fits, i'm not an expert on cloaky proteus, but this one's good enough and largely used. Also pretty pricey

stratios:
728 dps cold with 4 pulse lasers, 656 if you drop 2 lasers and slap some nasty cap warfare. 530 tank (cold) with strong exile (not a choice for a proteus, can't risk the tracking penalty), 17k ehp. faster than proteus, can select damage with drones losing some dps. Or go with an insane >1000 tank trading for a sub 500 dps. Also less pricey


basically, no reason not to fly stratios unless you need interdiction nullifier (low sec, or you have a scout)


Mmm, I disagree with that last statement. I'm no expert either, but what I do know I learned the hard way.

A Cov-ops Proteus fit entirely with T2 modules should be getting 550dps minimum, cold. 3% surgical strike and 5% med hybrid implants are fairly cheap and push you through 630dps. Active-repping a Proteus for PvP is inadvisable, I think. Too easy to get alpha'ed through or ganged up on by reinforcements. A solid T2 buffer tank (including T2 rigs) can easily push beyond 100,000 ehp. These things considered, I think you get what you pay for.

Also, the Proteus hull and subsystems are much higher priced than the last time I looked, and the Stratios has been coming down in price a bit very recently.

I'd advise to choose between ships based on the style of combat you prefer.



Good points. It's that i absolutely detest armor buffer for solo work. 500something with AB on not being webbed... eeeh... not really in my comfort zone for a blaster brawler xD
Adolph Weltschmerz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-01-11 15:08:10 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
Tengu is NOT a great all purpose gank ship. You'de really need to be selective.


I'm ganking anything from frigates to RR-BS gangs with a 100mn HAMgu, let me tell you: it is the one generalist you can buy for ISK. No other ship has a 500+ ehp/s one-slot tank, 750+ dps and goes 2.5km/s with an AB on.
It requires a scout/linkalt though.

If you're solo, just get a stratios (both shieldfit and singlerep, like centum c-type, work fine) and make sure you got a point and not a scram. Refit to scram when you're expecting to go up against MJD'ing ships, in that case keep point and burn in for a single scramactivation when you see the MJD animation light up.

Taking a stratios into scramrange is how people lose their ships.


Feel like posting your tengu fit?

A


It's a regular 5 launcher HAMgu... Second web is sometimes a scram or an invuln depending on how much return fire or mjd is expected. Needs a 5% PG imp. Wouldn't do *Elite-solo-pvp* with it, but it's very good for ganking ships with poor tracking running sleeper sites.

Quote:
[Tengu, ****]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Core B-Type 100MN Afterburner
True Sansha Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium 'Gattotte' Capacitor Booster
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


The one super-important but overlooked thing:
14.5sec aligntime, 3.5km/s OH, 64mil mass --> Makes Rattles fly about 20km. Hit two bumps and you got all the time in the world without reps boatin back into range.



thanks
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-01-12 08:02:28 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Tengu is NOT a great all purpose gank ship. You'de really need to be selective.
Loki is NOT known for great DPS either.
Though I have seen good tank in both of them.


You don't need super high dps in a ratter killing Tengu or Loki, provided you are shooting into the ratter's resist hole. I've seen Thrashers solo ratting Tengus simply by shooting EMP into the resist hole. Though the Tengu does lose a lot of dps shooting anything other than Scourge missiles.

In general though the Proteus is usually the best solo ratter hunter, it's dps is high enough to break nearly any subcap ratter, and it's tank is good enough to hold down a ratting carrier long enough for friends to jump in.

In the current meta you will mostly be hunting Ishtars, ratting Ishtars are not hard to kill except in frigs.

Stratios is also a great ratter killer, but lacks the bubble immunity of the T3s.
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