Crime & Punishment

I truly agree with you that a log off safely button isn't truly the answer. Yes, the button exists, and if you go back and read all my posts you'll see where my point in that even existing is a form of using it in a way the developers didn't intend. I don't think that when the developers sat down to create Eve they said to themselves, "you know, it'll be great to see how people 'bump' freighters to prevent warp so ganking can take place." I think the game mechanics evolved into ways to exploit the intended use, and in bringing up the log off safely button my main point to all that was this could continue, be transformed, and become a means of escape that shouldn't really be there. I even had someone in game telling me to do it, and have evemails telling me to do the same next time.

Is that the answer? No, I don't think it is. I truly don't want to nerf combat, but buffing haulers isn't the worst idea in the world. I don't want them super-buffed to the point they couldn't come down. Stick some capital drones on a freighter and may the best pilot win seems to be a much better idea than simply... "Oh crap... I'm getting bumped... guess I'm about to lose my freighter if the rookie pilot ship there aggro's me before I can log off safely." This is surely not the intent of ganking through the eyes of CCP, but that's what it currently is.

Are people STILL whining about bumping and ganking? Welcome to Eve. If you're not willing to risk loss, which is what you do every time you undock, you're playing the wrong game. It's as simple as that. If you don't enjoy the unique game play of Eve, why play? Complaining that "it's not fair" is comparable to a child throwing a tantrum when they don' t get their way. Pay attention, weigh risk vs gain, watch dscan, tank your ship, and be ready for anything. Adapt quickly, or die quicker.

I couldn't find that in the CSM minutes. I could see a bit that said "Exhumers are now blowing up at historically low rates", but that doesn't mean that ganking is necessarily low. It could be caused mainly by a drop of Exhumer kills elsewhere, and mining barge deaths could be at an all time high.

Has anyone actually done anything or fought any battles against gankers yet? One thing all of these dumb "rebels" has in common is that they restrict their actions in their "resistance" to whining on the forums to CCP which has failed several times. Basically it amounts to them stating they're resisting then doing nothing at all and expecting new results every time.

When are you people going to understand that you actually have to do something to make any progress?

You have no excuse for inaction, ganking/piracy is the most nerfed play style/profession in the game and highsec pve is the most buffed activity in the game. You have every advantage yet you still lose.

Except you're wrong, webs work just fine when you need to drop a freighter into warp in a hurry, being at the keyboard helps.

If you've been bumped you've already exceeded the 75% max speed threshold for getting into warp, not to mention the fact that bumping a ship requires a run up.

Wow, talk about about contradicting yourself, I refer you to the first quote above where you state that webs effectively don't work

Jennifer En Marland? She is a good sort and not afraid to engage gankers using their own tactics against them, proof in point my gank alt got suicide ganked by her while bumping in Tolle a couple of years ago.

Gankception

She's the one ... too bad she's one of the few pilots in AG who seem to want to do something that's not entirely dumb ..

Hardest part the AG crowd has in front of them is breaking out of the lethargy (apathy?) that the community has. If someone could do that, there'd be a hell of a fight break out between AG and CODE (et. al.).

TBH, I'd love to see the propaganda war that breaks out over it.

[/quote] I am afraid that isn't "all you ever said" in this thread but I will take you at your word that your primary concern is to "review the game mechanics".

Since you acknowledge that ganking isn't "griefing", I am happy to turn our discussion to ganking mechanics as I am sure that there are mechanisms that could be changed or implemented that would make the criminal highsec minigame more interesting and engaging for both the criminals and their targets. However, I am not comfortable dragging this thread off-topic any further as this thread is suppose to be discussing an in game opposition to the activity, not a discussion on how to make the game itself better. If you have some ideas, perhaps start a new thread here, or in the F&I section where it is more appropriate.

But in reply, Eve is a game of tradeoffs, risk vs. reward, cargo vs. tank, and so on, so in principle, giving freighters something that can make them safer, but at a cost to cargo isn't a problem. In fact this was just done by allowing them to fit low slots. However, freighters are capital ships, and as such suffers from the drawbacks of slow align-time and thus a vulnerability to bumping that all of them do so there may be no simple way to balance this so a single player can be safe, even if they take on some significant drawbacks to cargo capacity for instance.

Gankers in general have so little sympathy for haulers because we know how easy it is to avoid us - the oft-mentioned webbing/scouting escort being one that provides almost 100% protection. But even fitting full tank and keeping your cargo limit down will save you in most cases as even if a bumper catches you, you have to be quite unlucky if there isn't a better target around, one that the gankers actually have the manpower to pop and that won't cost them several hundred million in ganks ships for no reason. Or just look at the killboards and fly a DST if the gankers are active.

But I will finish by again saying you don't need to worry about CCP "going over the top". Ganking is here to stay, and if CODE. does get too good at it, CCP will make some gentle nerfs to balance things out as they always do. Just relax, protect yourself as best you can and have fun playing the game. [/quote]

I can see how a misconception on my previous points, reading into them, would lead someone to believe that I am calling for ultimate reforms, to nerf ganking to where it can't happen, etc., but I assure you that I do not believe that. Eve is Eve, and ganking is part of Eve. Everyone can argue the same points over and over about what pilots should do, etc., but from the beginning I've tried to in essence to warn that a continuation of ganking as it currently stands could result in drastic changes. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. Just because CCP hasn't modified ganking methods to this point doesn't mean they won't if the complaints rise to a level that they believe could cost them more players than not.

I just disagree with you on one main point and that is not modifying current game mechanics to allow a freighter to defend itself. I hate to use RL examples for a game, but banks use armored vehicles to transport money. The drivers of those trucks are armed guards, so if the truck is attacked the men inside can respond back. The transporters themselves can fight back, and this obviously makes sense. Just to give a counter-example, most trains carry lots of freight but usually don't have armed guards, but if there was a rise of modern day train robberies then you could see armed guards on trains in order to help prevent attacks.

Granted... I realize the ganker trolls who have nothing to contribute will latch onto the great train robbery examples to troll to death, but for those of you who are capable of critical thinking just look at my point. Give the freighter the ability to defend itself, that's a compromise that shouldn't cause a panic in Eve. If this were to happen would a freighter be able to withstand a ganking fleet of 5... probably. Could it survive a 20 man fleet, probably not. If this were to be allowed on freighters I think you'd see an influx of people wanting to gank and make freighter pilots more ready to lose their ship since they realize they have no excuse. I think it's a positive for both sides.

As for "going over the top", I'm not saying ganking IS over the top, but that a perception of that could lead CCP to make changes that shouldn't be made. Regardless of how the gankers feel about the current system doesn't mean CCP won't change how they, that is CCP themselves, feel about the system. I've said it from the beginning, there is a solution somewhere in the middle and ganker refusal to acknowledge that there is a perceived problem, even if you don't see one yourself, means a change could happen that shouldn't.

I'm being perfectly honest with you when I tell you that ship has sailed.

You're in the same box as Lucas, Veers, Anslo and the rest as far as I'm concerned.




One wonders why you spent five pages arguing for precisely that, then.