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Dev Blog - A new look for EVE’s UI – feedback needed!

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Author
Sky Marshal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#721 - 2015-01-09 16:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Marshal
The patch notes, so no RGB sliders, no better themes... Well, I don't know if I should wait one another month as there were some holidays after all, or if I should consider that they don't care as usual...

I guess I should continue to NOT recommend the game to anyone as usual. I don't understand how CCP can be so consistent about doing bad work. There is no valid reason who can justify the removal of UI customization into a game, especialy if it is a feature who permitted to contentate nearly everyone.

Unless they hate the players. Wait, it sounds logical in fact...
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Pandemic Horde
#722 - 2015-01-10 00:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Kell
Sky Marshal wrote:
The patch notes, so no RGB sliders, no better themes... Well, I don't know if I should wait one another month as there were some holidays after all, or if I should consider that they don't care as usual...

I guess I should continue to NOT recommend the game to anyone as usual. I don't understand how CCP can be so consistent about doing bad work. There is no valid reason who can justify the removal of UI customization into a game, especialy if it is a feature who permitted to contentate nearly everyone.

Unless they hate the players. Wait, it sounds logical in fact...


My guess is that CCP thinks that the UI is just like a red wine and becomes better by itself when they just wait long enough...
Remer Kraft
R Trast
#723 - 2015-01-10 10:40:03 UTC
Mara Kell wrote:
My guess is that CCP thinks that the UI is just like a red wine and becomes better by itself when they just wait long enough...

shorter, until the wine sour ..
Alia Ravenswing
DARK HAT
#724 - 2015-01-11 11:42:43 UTC
I am unable to post a response without my connection getting closed by the server. so aparently my reply must be short.

I don't like it.
Alia Ravenswing
DARK HAT
#725 - 2015-01-11 11:47:52 UTC
If it's not broke, don't fix it.

It has several probelem but the biggest one is vital information on the screen can't be seen because of a star or a nebula in the background.

I use to be able to make a specific window solidor not by clicking or unclicking the PIN button. Why did you take abilities AWAY from us?
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#726 - 2015-01-11 14:22:22 UTC
Alia Ravenswing wrote:

I use to be able to make a specific window solidor not by clicking or unclicking the PIN button. Why did you take abilities AWAY from us?


They didn't. You've got a transparency slider. Set it to 0, and pinning/unpinning will work just as it was before.

Per aspera ad astra

Akulx
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#727 - 2015-01-11 17:26:06 UTC
I have not read all 700+ replies so I apologize if this is a dup..

Many of the complaints I have read could be solved if the UI would allow us to drag windows to another monitor (outside of the application window). I know this is a trivial programming change. It would certainly make the UI a lot easier to deal with.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#728 - 2015-01-11 17:34:01 UTC
Akulx wrote:
I have not read all 700+ replies so I apologize if this is a dup..

Many of the complaints I have read could be solved if the UI would allow us to drag windows to another monitor (outside of the application window). I know this is a trivial programming change. It would certainly make the UI a lot easier to deal with.

like an excel plugin maybe
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#729 - 2015-01-11 21:08:43 UTC
Alia Ravenswing wrote:
I am unable to post a response without my connection getting closed by the server.

Please submit a bug report.
When I did it, they say "noone else experiencing it, we have no evidence to cross-check".

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#730 - 2015-01-11 21:11:29 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Alia Ravenswing wrote:

I use to be able to make a specific window solidor not by clicking or unclicking the PIN button. Why did you take abilities AWAY from us?


They didn't. You've got a transparency slider. Set it to 0, and pinning/unpinning will work just as it was before.

No, it doesn't. Pinned windows become nontransparent when they get input focus.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#731 - 2015-01-11 22:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Tonto Auri wrote:
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Alia Ravenswing wrote:

I use to be able to make a specific window solidor not by clicking or unclicking the PIN button. Why did you take abilities AWAY from us?


They didn't. You've got a transparency slider. Set it to 0, and pinning/unpinning will work just as it was before.

No, it doesn't. Pinned windows become nontransparent when they get input focus.


So they didn't change how the pin/unpinning function is working.
They added an annoying effect over it (dynamic transparency on active window), that's something different.

Per aspera ad astra

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#732 - 2015-01-12 12:41:39 UTC
Doesn't matter, how it is different, the interface remains unusable.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#733 - 2015-01-13 21:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Tonto Auri wrote:
Doesn't matter, how it is different, the interface remains unusable.


Well... so there are actually 35152 players using an "unusable interface" right now...

Per aspera ad astra

Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Pandemic Horde
#734 - 2015-01-13 22:48:27 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Doesn't matter, how it is different, the interface remains unusable.


Well... so there are actually 35152 players using an "unusable interface" right now...


Most of those players are not even really using the UI. There are however professions like traders who have to use it permenantly. And i know many many traders who are still really really unhappy with the UI.
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#735 - 2015-01-14 00:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Ugh
Mara Kell wrote:
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Doesn't matter, how it is different, the interface remains unusable.


Well... so there are actually 35152 players using an "unusable interface" right now...


Most of those players are not even really using the UI. There are however professions like traders who have to use it permenantly. And i know many many traders who are still really really unhappy with the UI.


Well, I am a trader, so...

And are you seriously telling me some... most of people are playing EVE without using the UI?
Wait...

Even if they aren't trader, I mean...
Are you seriously saying a thing like the overview, in exemple, is a gadget thing and not a part of the UI?
Wait... again...

Let me ask you again one more time:
Are you seriously saying even at least one and only one player is playing EVE without using the UI?

...

Edit: if you have serious eye diseases or problems, it can be an argument and you have to give feedback about it to CCP as others have done, but don't say the UI is unusable just like this, without any good argument.

But/And... even considering this argument, I would answer you that with the old UI you had opaque or semi or fully transparent windows. Nothing you can't have anymore, so...

Per aspera ad astra

Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#736 - 2015-01-14 01:01:28 UTC
JAN 2015: NEW/EXISTING "UI" ISSUES & FEEDBACK:
OK, I'll give it a try and add my .02 ISK's worth..

FYI: USING "CARBON", 0 Transparency, NO Window Blur, NO Match Theme

NEOCOM ICONS STUCK AS "TRANSLUCENT": The Neocom panel is unable to be made opaque. Disturbing considering its top "E" (EVE) symbol, avatar pic, training graphic and bottom clock areas are opaque. PROBLEM: Hard to distinguish icons from bright graphics in background. Good example: when using "Carbon" theme with TRANSPARENCY=0. The icons are difficult enough to distinguish, but especially in a Caldari station with bright/reflective backgrounds (or in space with a bright star) "underneath" the Neocom.

ICONS: Icons would be more visible and efficient if we could "color"/"tint" certain icons to help visually distinguish (example) what are industrial icons versus inventory icons versus business icons, etc. Especially considering "Grouping" icons does not seem to function as intended.

NEW ICON VISUAL/INTERPRETATION: The "Symbology" could benefit from some color (should those wish it). I rely on color to help differentiate options - that is in addition to shapes. Now I'm mentally taking more time staring at all the new icons and not having any clue as to "what is what". Problem is: lack of color, which seems odd, considering your example of the "works in progress" and example pics shown/shared in your "a new look for EVE's UI" blog: the pictures show a colored glow. Problem with current set up: it's purely black and white. This gets even more confusing when you have NO option to set the "background" of the Neocom to something NON-transparent.

OVERVIEW NAVIGATION ICONS: It would help if the warp/approach/jump/etc symbols above the Overview were larger. Though they appear to be bolder, they have then been reduced in size, with no ability to resize them (like one can with in-station icon sizes).

DARKENING/REFOCUSING CLIENT: Constant color shade "refocusing" is distracting. Example: When trying to split-drag (CTRL+drag) an item from one place to another, the center window will pop up asking how much to move, but the entire screen darkens. Gets a bit distracting when split-dragging 50 items "quickly" and not able to see the rest of your inventory. It's behavior is almost identical to when one hits the ESC key.

TAB VISIBILITY: "Tabs" are not clearly distinguishable. They are simply words. Providing dividing lines to help discern/define where you can drag to/select would help.

WINDOW CORNERS/BORDERS: The window corners visually do not always "line up" next to each other. On some instances, when windows do line up next to each other, the 1 pixel line merges adjacently, forming a more visible 2 pixel line. But when they do not merge, you can see the background between a 1-2 pixel gap, even though the client insists your windows are "snapped next to each other".

CLUTTER REDUCTION

I've noticed months ago all EVE DEVs and CCP associates stating the phrase of intent to "reduce clutter in the interface" - a common DEV-spoken/typed "theme" and "token sentence" associated with every change since changing the in-game typeface several years ago to make more "screen real estate" yet the Industry UI is still one of the biggest steps backwards I have ever seen regarding this statement since, and the following issues are still unaddressed:

INDUSTRY UI: The Industry UI is too bloated visually, taking up to 50% of a windowed active cient, and does not allow resizing to a "managable" size when dealing with other opened windows - as usually many of mass manufacturing and industrial corporations have open at any one time when docked/working. The Industry UI needs a more compact way to list the jobs. Each "job row" takes up about 2 "normal rows" when in "LIST MODE" in ALL "INVENTORY UI" windows. Industry's UI is a waste of space, and the pulsating "Tron-meets-Georgia-O'Keeffe's vaginal-esque" blueprint graphic area is a tremendous waste of space which cannot be made smaller or even vertically "squished" to allow a longer, more intelligible view of the jobs listed.


A SIDE NOTE: Interestingly, with such fervor to make the Neocom/Icon-ography of the game stripped of color and "simplified", it is not without its irony that the Industry UI is now the most colorful User Interface in the game now.


One last thought:

MINERAL SYMBOLOGY: It has become incredibly frustrating to visually (quickly) understand amounts of "minerals" used in an Industry "job" without unnecessary waste of time "mousing over" each symbol. The iconography-only of minerals is terrible. The client/UI lacks any option to textually show what minerals are when listing manufacturing amounts/needs, etc. Perhaps allow a "LIST" mode for all mineral-oriented iconography as an alternative.
- ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION: Simply abbreviate TRI,PYR,MEX,ISO,NOX,MEG,ZYD and MOR - all would easily be appreciated and could be positioned conveniently "above" the mineral symbols.


Win7Pro64-bit - USING "CARBON", 0 Transparency, NO Window Blur, NO Match Theme
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Pandemic Horde
#737 - 2015-01-14 01:11:08 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:


Edit: if you have serious eye diseases or problems, it can be an argument and you have to give feedback about it to CCP as others have done, but don't say the UI is unusable just like this, without any good argument.

But/And... even considering this argument, I would answer you that with the old UI you had opaque or semi or fully transparent windows. Nothing you can't have anymore, so...


I have explained my arguments in detail here and in the feedback thread weeks ago and guess what happended, nothing...

I have even posted pictures with clear design bugs in the UI, nothing happened..

And with the old UI i was able to choose the contrast between the window background and the text letters. This way i was able to modify it, so may eyes stayed relaxed. Not possible anymore.

And im not even going to start taling about that stupid window highlighting that we still cannot deactivate..
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#738 - 2015-01-14 01:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Mara Kell wrote:
Nolan Kotulan wrote:


Edit: if you have serious eye diseases or problems, it can be an argument and you have to give feedback about it to CCP as others have done, but don't say the UI is unusable just like this, without any good argument.

But/And... even considering this argument, I would answer you that with the old UI you had opaque or semi or fully transparent windows. Nothing you can't have anymore, so...


I have explained my arguments in detail here and in the feedback thread weeks ago and guess what happended, nothing...

I have even posted pictures with clear design bugs in the UI, nothing happened..

And with the old UI i was able to choose the contrast between the window background and the text letters. This way i was able to modify it, so may eyes stayed relaxed. Not possible anymore.

And im not even going to start taling about that stupid window highlighting that we still cannot deactivate..


Well, keep asking them politely, and maybe use SiSi to open feedback support tickets?!

Don't know if you figured out, but Protheus is a "small" release.
We "all" were in holidays, and CCP probably too.
I also have some bug tickets about the UI that are still open (not even attached) but I'm pretty sure they will fix them.
About more subjective "issues", like the corner brackets that I hate, I don't have much faith...

Remember that when some things don't change in the long term, it's probably because not enough people complain about them.
They can't make everybody happy, so...
But let them a bit more time before "yelling" at them...

About the window highlighting, I had the same opinion as you, but I'm now finally getting used to it...

(sorry if my English isn't always perfect, I'm tired and it isn't my native language)

Per aspera ad astra

Octavius Gaius
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#739 - 2015-01-27 10:14:06 UTC
Been away from game for a year, Forgot almost everything, I tried for several hr. to get my low contrast custom colors (white letters on dark background gives me eye strain) Is this a joke they took away custom colors give it back please or let us change the color of the text please, how am i going to play my 36 hr marathon EVE sessions without this.

In all seriousness, this is ridiculous how hard could it be to change this back, Has CCP commented on this yet?
perfecto ignori
F.U.N. Inc.
The Ancients.
#740 - 2015-01-27 12:41:21 UTC
still no improvements to the tactical overlay?