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I want ISK Titan Smash! 3rd January 2015 - TIME CHANGED TO 7PM!!!

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Capt Sephiroth
#141 - 2015-01-09 02:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Sephiroth
Just wanna add my view of this situation.

Bringing a defense fleet by the host was fine and was a very smart move to be honest in order to create content for the rest of the participants so kudos for that idea. However it should have stayed a defensive fleet, if the titan HAD to be destroyed then the defense fleet should have just backed off and let the other participants destroy it. By being in the defensive fleet you should have been automatically disqualified doing any significant damage to the objective you were protecting. If there was no need for that titan to be destroyed the event could have been postponed to a later date so people now knowing there would be a defensive fleet could come more organized. Cause lets be honest that was the real case of why the defensive fleet was able to withstand even after being pitted versus such "odds". It has been proven throughout the history that a smaller but better organized, equipped, trained and not to mention seasoned army would delete a larger army that is opposite in all of those qualities, not to mention it was a free for all and not attacking vs defensive fleet. That would have been a much better way of promo and nash would come out as a great host.

But that was not the case. From my point of view Nash as the host took advantage of the rules not being specific enough, that was maybe due to the lack of knowledge or experience or just too much trust into the hostee. He did not break the rules, but he did turn out to be a bad host, which is not to be much of a surprise considering we are talking about Eve, where morally sound, honest and fair people are a rare occurrence, almost as rare as unicorns.

Nash made a plan with shadow cartel to create content and "fun" for them, if you can call fun doing something that requires as much thought as pressing F1 on an asteroid cause that's how much of a risk were the "attackers". They filled up their kb and wallets cause I for one can presume that those 100bil didn't even go to cherubim or w/e his name is and then stayed with him to be used for that charity event, cause well 100bil will be a hell of a lot plexes or other prizes to give out and an obvious spike should occur. The reasoning behind that is if he is playing that role of a 3rd party not guided by any morals but just currency then nothing should come as a surprise.

In conclusion I support IWI for denying to fulfill their end of the contract even though Nash technically didn't break any rules given by the contractor he still did take advantage of that in the bad way and thus betrayed the mindset and the idea behind the event. There is little they can do but deny having any involvement with those parties and continue forward trying out new ideas and hosts to promote themselves.

Best regards

Capt Sephiroth

P.S. I was quite saddened by the fact that an alliance I had such high regard and respect for being involved in such low blows and dirty tricks to create content for their members
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2015-01-09 02:30:16 UTC
Seconded the above post now can we let this thread die?

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Mr Spaxi
#143 - 2015-01-09 10:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Spaxi
AMGSiR wrote:
What you [Eric] said to my reply was basically the gist of it.
I hope everything gets resolved eventually as I really dislike all of the drama. I play games to get away from it, not be involved with it lol. I just came in this thread because of the ISK that was basically stolen from I Want Isk, and 'held' by someone who's supposed to be the most reputable guy in EVE.


Mate, you can't say it was stolen. Nashh was given ISK to organize an event which was aimed at promoting IWI and #EVE_nt, after he purchased the Titan that money was gone. The ISK sponsored (I will not dare say donated as many people do) for this Event was completely justified, as a lot of publicity was generated, which was the reasoning behind the sponsorship. In my eyes, IWI sponsored Nashh with 100B, Nashh promoted their services (very well in everyone's eyes but their own) and then they wanted their money back. It's like paying a hooker (a lovely comparison here - IWI with hookers) and then after sex you're like... nah, it was bad sex; but the sex was bad because you didn't specify what you enjoy or want to do. Catch my drift?

This is a very simple case when you look at it that way - a company sponsored an event, but after the event was over, they wanted their money back. Who's to pay for the event then? Nashh? No. The publicity was aimed specifically at IWI so they have no right to the ISK they invested into the advertisement. If they did, it would be Nashh paying for an advertisement of IWI which would never happen. It goes the other way around.
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-01-09 17:14:26 UTC
If what you say is true, then why did Nash give the ISK away to Chribba instead of keeping it, for all of his hard work advertising the event? Because he knew it wasn't right to keep it. He said it so himself, live on EVE Radio.

Besides, I can assure you that I Want Isk did the majority of the advertising for this event, not Nash.
Dark Flare
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-01-09 18:49:55 UTC
Capt Sephiroth wrote:
Just wanna add my view of this situation.

Bringing a defense fleet by the host was fine and was a very smart move to be honest in order to create content for the rest of the participants so kudos for that idea. However it should have stayed a defensive fleet, if the titan HAD to be destroyed then the defense fleet should have just backed off and let the other participants destroy it. By being in the defensive fleet you should have been automatically disqualified doing any significant damage to the objective you were protecting. If there was no need for that titan to be destroyed the event could have been postponed to a later date so people now knowing there would be a defensive fleet could come more organized. Cause lets be honest that was the real case of why the defensive fleet was able to withstand even after being pitted versus such "odds". It has been proven throughout the history that a smaller but better organized, equipped, trained and not to mention seasoned army would delete a larger army that is opposite in all of those qualities, not to mention it was a free for all and not attacking vs defensive fleet. That would have been a much better way of promo and nash would come out as a great host.

But that was not the case. From my point of view Nash as the host took advantage of the rules not being specific enough, that was maybe due to the lack of knowledge or experience or just too much trust into the hostee. He did not break the rules, but he did turn out to be a bad host, which is not to be much of a surprise considering we are talking about Eve, where morally sound, honest and fair people are a rare occurrence, almost as rare as unicorns.

Nash made a plan with shadow cartel to create content and "fun" for them, if you can call fun doing something that requires as much thought as pressing F1 on an asteroid cause that's how much of a risk were the "attackers". They filled up their kb and wallets cause I for one can presume that those 100bil didn't even go to cherubim or w/e his name is and then stayed with him to be used for that charity event, cause well 100bil will be a hell of a lot plexes or other prizes to give out and an obvious spike should occur. The reasoning behind that is if he is playing that role of a 3rd party not guided by any morals but just currency then nothing should come as a surprise.

In conclusion I support IWI for denying to fulfill their end of the contract even though Nash technically didn't break any rules given by the contractor he still did take advantage of that in the bad way and thus betrayed the mindset and the idea behind the event. There is little they can do but deny having any involvement with those parties and continue forward trying out new ideas and hosts to promote themselves.

Best regards

Capt Sephiroth

P.S. I was quite saddened by the fact that an alliance I had such high regard and respect for being involved in such low blows and dirty tricks to create content for their members


In future I'll give you a call to find out how many attacking ships we're allowed to destroy before we have to let them kill the titan yeah? For the full four hours we were fighting. There was no opportunity to "just back off" without losing a significant portion of our fleet. At no point did we want the ISK prize, nor did we expect it. The complaints are entirely about the fact that IWantISK has called Nash untrustworthy when he hasn't done a single untrustworthy thing.

Kings of Lowsec
Dark Flare
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#146 - 2015-01-09 18:50:46 UTC
AMGSiR wrote:
If what you say is true, then why did Nash give the ISK away to Chribba instead of keeping it, for all of his hard work advertising the event? Because he knew it wasn't right to keep it. He said it so himself, live on EVE Radio.

Besides, I can assure you that I Want Isk did the majority of the advertising for this event, not Nash.


No, he didn't keep it to use as rewards because of the relationship breakdown between IWantISK and Nash. He would have been perfectly fine keeping it for himself, but out of respect donated it to charity. I can't believe you're trying to turn that into a bad thing.

Kings of Lowsec
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2015-01-09 23:11:34 UTC
Dark Flare wrote:
AMGSiR wrote:
If what you say is true, then why did Nash give the ISK away to Chribba instead of keeping it, for all of his hard work advertising the event? Because he knew it wasn't right to keep it. He said it so himself, live on EVE Radio.

Besides, I can assure you that I Want Isk did the majority of the advertising for this event, not Nash.


No, he didn't keep it to use as rewards because of the relationship breakdown between IWantISK and Nash. He would have been perfectly fine keeping it for himself, but out of respect donated it to charity. I can't believe you're trying to turn that into a bad thing.


I can't believe you're trying to act like "donating" stolen ISK makes it excusable. It wasn't Nash's ISK, nor was it Nash's decision to donate it.
Capt Sephiroth
#148 - 2015-01-09 23:15:01 UTC
Dark Flare wrote:
In future I'll give you a call to find out how many attacking ships we're allowed to destroy before we have to let them kill the titan yeah? For the full four hours we were fighting. There was no opportunity to "just back off" without losing a significant portion of our fleet. At no point did we want the ISK prize, nor did we expect it. The complaints are entirely about the fact that IWantISK has called Nash untrustworthy when he hasn't done a single untrustworthy thing.


You talking about having no opportunity to "just back off" would maybe have some sense if there was no video of the event that clearly shows what the situation was at the end before the call to destroy the Titan came in. And even if you did lose anything which I highly doubt, you would surely be compensated from that 100bil that nash had not to mention that you would be there to provide content for the rest of the pilots, not yourselves. That sentence of yours has absolutely no weight for an excuse.

Of course you weren't there for the ISK prize, nor did you expect it when you knew that it would turn out this way, that they would back off from the rest of the funding, you might have done an immoral thing but you are not dumb, you expected it.

Now on to your other post.

Yeah he "donated" it to a person that took the role of a no morals just $$$ and his own interest for the sole purpose of trying to repair image and poor try of damage control to make Nash look more of a victim. We all know what those people are like, he is no different than the scamers that "double" your isk in all the major hubs, just a bit more sophisticated. If the event isn't done by CCP then there is no reason to believe that it wasn't rigged in one way or the other.
Dark Flare
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-01-09 23:29:43 UTC
Capt Sephiroth wrote:
Dark Flare wrote:
In future I'll give you a call to find out how many attacking ships we're allowed to destroy before we have to let them kill the titan yeah? For the full four hours we were fighting. There was no opportunity to "just back off" without losing a significant portion of our fleet. At no point did we want the ISK prize, nor did we expect it. The complaints are entirely about the fact that IWantISK has called Nash untrustworthy when he hasn't done a single untrustworthy thing.


You talking about having no opportunity to "just back off" would maybe have some sense if there was no video of the event that clearly shows what the situation was at the end before the call to destroy the Titan came in. And even if you did lose anything which I highly doubt, you would surely be compensated from that 100bil that nash had not to mention that you would be there to provide content for the rest of the pilots, not yourselves. That sentence of yours has absolutely no weight for an excuse.

Of course you weren't there for the ISK prize, nor did you expect it when you knew that it would turn out this way, that they would back off from the rest of the funding, you might have done an immoral thing but you are not dumb, you expected it.

Now on to your other post.

Yeah he "donated" it to a person that took the role of a no morals just $$$ and his own interest for the sole purpose of trying to repair image and poor try of damage control to make Nash look more of a victim. We all know what those people are like, he is no different than the scamers that "double" your isk in all the major hubs, just a bit more sophisticated. If the event isn't done by CCP then there is no reason to believe that it wasn't rigged in one way or the other.


What, at the end when there was no-one on field to kill the Titan except us? Yeah warping out then would've done loads.

And no, Nash didn't give us any money, nor was there an offer of any money, nor any "insurance" against lost ships. Please don't make things up when you have no idea what you're talking about.

What exactly did we do that was immoral please?

The event went fine. It generated a lot of advertising for IWantISK. The 100B was for doing exactly that. It was Nash's money. The fact that IWantISK demanded it back does not make it not his anymore, just like if I paid for a service I couldn't demand the money back.

Kings of Lowsec
Capt Sephiroth
#150 - 2015-01-09 23:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Sephiroth
Aw my... I won't even bother commenting on that 1st sentence.

Yeah, you saying it makes it true.

Knowingly being part of something immoral makes you immoral as well.

As for the last paragraph... Wait what? Of course they demanded it back when they didn't get the service you paid for. Its like you demanding your money back from the provider that you left a broken TV at to be repaired and paid for it only to find out when you got it back that it is not in fully working order, meaning you did not get what you paid for. I'm guessing when and if that ever happens to you you will just accept it and not do or say anything? Good man.
Dark Flare
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#151 - 2015-01-10 00:19:44 UTC
Capt Sephiroth wrote:
Aw my... I won't even bother commenting on that 1st sentence.

Yeah, you saying it makes it true.

Knowingly being part of something immoral makes you immoral as well.

As for the last paragraph... Wait what? Of course they demanded it back when they didn't get the service you paid for. Its like you demanding your money back from the provider that you left a broken TV at to be repaired and paid for it only to find out when you got it back that it is not in fully working order, meaning you did not get what you paid for. I'm guessing when and if that ever happens to you you will just accept it and not do or say anything? Good man.


What was immoral?

Why do you think the event didn't go as planned?

We formed a defense fleet so that the titan wouldn't be dead in 2minutes. Everyone involved had a great fight, on both sides. It was 4 hours of brawling. At the end of that time, the other major fleets warped off and started heading out of system. When we discovered they didn't plan to fight any longer, we offered a temporary truce to allow them to come back and shoot at the Titan to try to get the final blow while we killed it. Unfortunately someone affiliated with Nash got the final blow (which is basically pot luck).

Nash suggested to IWI that the prize should go to the top damage dealer instead, as they were unaffiliated. Which seems like a perfectly sensible resolution to me.


It's amusing to me that the vast majority of complaints are coming from people who weren't even involved in the fight. Everyone involved thought it was a great event.

Kings of Lowsec
Protovarious
The Neocom Network
#152 - 2015-01-10 00:46:51 UTC
If you did not listen to both interviews on GRN Eve Radio then please do so before inserting your foot deeper into your mouth.

Fact - The defense fleet (regardless of whether it was organized or not) held the field. Everyone was invited back to get in on kill because the titan HAD to die. It was by happenstance that someone on the defense fleet got the final blow.

Fact - It was conceded by IWantISK that Nashh NEVER intended to give the 20 bil to the final blow since it happened to come from someone in the defense fleet. So for those crying about it, shut up.

Fact - It was further conceded by IWantISK that Nashh offered up the 20 bil to the top damage dealer instead. Nashh NEVER indicated that the ISK was awarded to the defense fleet member. The notion that it was IWantISK's idea to change the awarded party indicates you did not listen to the interview on the BC Show.

Fact - Bobmon ran with the half-baked story because he was in comms when Nashh was ambushed by seven members of IWantISK's staff / board. Despite the fact that there were NO accusations made of purposeful misconduct at the time, Bobmon took his tabloid title for the article to drive traffic to his site.

Fact - By IWantISK's own admission, they concluded that Nashh did not intend to corrupt the event. The reason they pulled sonsorship of #Eve_nt was because Nashh refused to bend over and apologize for the killing blow fiasco despite putting on a successful event otherwise.

You can disagree with how the remaining ISK was given to Chribba if you want to, but the fact remains that if I would have been treated the way Nashh (A WELL KNOWN AND TRUSTED CONTENT CREATOR TO THIS GAME) was treated by some elitist jerk sitting on a pile of space pixel money, Id've taken that 100bil ISK and converted it to PLEX in the cargo hold of the nearest Atron in Jita and let the chips fall where they may. Nobody deserves that kind of disrespect and you who are swallowing EN24's drivel are complete gullible tools. If you believe IWantISK are the victims here, then you clearly are what's wrong with this community.

There has not been ONE person that was directly involved with the organizing of the event, it's sponsor, nor Bobmon himself (who still has not printed a retraction of the title of the related article) that there was ANY intentional effort to undermine this event.

Now instead of trying to drive a content creator out of the game (because it's easier to **** on somebody rather than create the content for yourselves) how about you actually stop shitposting about it like it was YOUR isk. It wasn't. The top damage dealer got the ISK and this was acceptable to all parties (Including the defense fleet). Nashh offered up 20 bil of his OWN ISK in order to appease the situation.

Further attempts at trying to scandalize this event and drop a drama cyno because you want to rage about something only shows that you either DON'T have all the information or are choosing not to listen to facts. The event is done. Now go find something else important to rage about.

Co-host of The Neocom Podcast - http://www.TheNeocom.com

Eve Community Blogger - The Eve Editorial - http://eveeditorial.wordpress.com

Twitter: @Proto_Eve
Capt Sephiroth
#153 - 2015-01-10 00:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Sephiroth
pft Prot you ruined everything... :(
Protovarious
The Neocom Network
#154 - 2015-01-10 00:58:42 UTC
Capt Sephiroth wrote:
pft Prot you ruined everything... :(


*Hat tip

Just doing the job, sir.

Co-host of The Neocom Podcast - http://www.TheNeocom.com

Eve Community Blogger - The Eve Editorial - http://eveeditorial.wordpress.com

Twitter: @Proto_Eve
Capt Sephiroth
#155 - 2015-01-10 01:06:44 UTC
And what a fine job that was if I may add. You have my respect good sir.
Corbin DalIas
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#156 - 2015-01-10 01:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin DalIas
Protovarious wrote:
Capt Sephiroth wrote:
pft Prot you ruined everything... :(


*Hat tip

Just doing the job, sir.

Hey I heard the stream as well and iwantisk was also mad at the fact that Nassh was completely surprised by why iwantisk was upset at how things happened. At first there was no request for an apology but the confusion in forums forced iwantisk to ask for this apology.

The fact that Nassh was unable to understand why iwantisk was upset made iwantisk lose trust in Nassh's ability in giving out prizes.

Do your research while also being unbiased.
Protovarious
The Neocom Network
#157 - 2015-01-10 01:17:09 UTC
This whole situation just set 5 alarm bells off since I heard Nashh's voice struggle on Eve Radio. I saw the thread was still going and didn't put 2 and 2 together on ya, Seph.

Over-reaction? Maybe. But this was a lot more civil than my blogpost about the subject. Bobmon and IWantISK are primary and I'm going both barrels loaded.

Co-host of The Neocom Podcast - http://www.TheNeocom.com

Eve Community Blogger - The Eve Editorial - http://eveeditorial.wordpress.com

Twitter: @Proto_Eve
Protovarious
The Neocom Network
#158 - 2015-01-10 01:21:18 UTC
Corbin DalIas wrote:
Protovarious wrote:
Capt Sephiroth wrote:
pft Prot you ruined everything... :(


*Hat tip

Just doing the job, sir.

Hey I heard the stream as well and iwantisk was also mad at the fact that Nassh was completely surprised by why iwantisk being upset at how things happened. At first there was no request for an apology but the confusion in forums forced iwantisk to ask for this apology.

The fact that Nassh was unable to understand why iwantisk was upset made iwantisk lose trust in Nassh's ability in giving out prizes.

Do your research while also being unbiased.

Someone being ambushed and not understanding why is no justification for pulling the plug on a RL community event. Your supposed bridge between "Surprise" and "Trust" is a leap that not even Carl Lewis could make.

On this subject I'm as biased as you could get. Any indications that I am REMOTELY unbiased on anything should be taken as falsehood and tinfoil.

Co-host of The Neocom Podcast - http://www.TheNeocom.com

Eve Community Blogger - The Eve Editorial - http://eveeditorial.wordpress.com

Twitter: @Proto_Eve
Corbin DalIas
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#159 - 2015-01-10 01:25:15 UTC
Protovarious wrote:
Corbin DalIas wrote:
Protovarious wrote:
Capt Sephiroth wrote:
pft Prot you ruined everything... :(


*Hat tip

Just doing the job, sir.

Hey I heard the stream as well and iwantisk was also mad at the fact that Nassh was completely surprised by why iwantisk being upset at how things happened. At first there was no request for an apology but the confusion in forums forced iwantisk to ask for this apology.

The fact that Nassh was unable to understand why iwantisk was upset made iwantisk lose trust in Nassh's ability in giving out prizes.

Do your research while also being unbiased.

Someone being ambushed and not understanding why is no justification for pulling the plug on a RL community event. Your supposed bridge between "Surprise" and "Trust" is a leap that not even Carl Lewis could make.

On this subject I'm as biased as you could get. Any indications that I am REMOTELY unbiased on anything should be taken as falsehood and tinfoil.

You're still being biased.

But whatever, I don't really care. Seems there are mixed emotions about all of this and I want ISK has a bigger user base than most of the third party services out there. I want ISK does create content too so if they choose to not sponsor something, so be it.
Protovarious
The Neocom Network
#160 - 2015-01-10 01:34:29 UTC
English is your second language I take it. That's fine, this is an international game. So let me break it down for you:

I

AM

NOT

UNBIASED

...in anything I publish - be it blogs or podcasts. Ask anyone. Don't like it? Don't let the door hit ya where my boot kicked ya.

You're being awfully apologetic for IWantISK. It's amusing. Believe me, IWantISK has already lost accounts from this and when I'm done, they'll lose A LOT more.



By the way, has anyone taken a look at those community-friendly people over at http://www.eve-bet.com ? Those guys know customer service.

EVE-BET.COM - The OFFICIAL headlining sponsor of #Eve_nt!

(Get used to this folks, I'll be plugging them for awhile)

Co-host of The Neocom Podcast - http://www.TheNeocom.com

Eve Community Blogger - The Eve Editorial - http://eveeditorial.wordpress.com

Twitter: @Proto_Eve