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Why don't goons start taking down low and high sec POS's?
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Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-12-19 01:23:55 UTC
If any of you for some reason thought that I was kidding when I said "we're burning branch down" this was one of their CSAAs about two hours ago.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-12-19 01:30:38 UTC
Redefining Blitzkrieg

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Lord Hader
Shattered Star Exiles
#23 - 2011-12-19 01:32:22 UTC
There are no technetium moons in highsec. Hence why no major nullsec PVP alliance bothers highsec POS's.
Mirima Thurander
#24 - 2011-12-19 02:36:08 UTC
Goons wont shoot high sec POSs because humping a pile of old used rusty aids infected crack needles is WAY more fun than shooting High Sec POSs.



All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-19 02:36:48 UTC
And why won't goonies start sending me ISK?!
what's the matter goonies? SCARD?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#26 - 2011-12-19 02:40:09 UTC
Current mechanics mean the only way to kill a Hisec POS (owned by intelligent people) is to RF it then Suicide Gank it once it comes out of RF. Couple thousand alpha tornados per POS, sounds fun.Roll

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2011-12-19 02:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
1. Why would they? There's nothing in it for them — in fact, it would only devalue their ice interdiction effort.
2. Highsec POSe were recently rendered unkillable by the GM's, so :effort:
3. Too much exposure and too little action for too little (i.e no) gain.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-12-19 02:46:28 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Goons avoid anything that smells remotely like work.


Who the hell wants to pays 15 bucks a month to log in and do work??? Your statement applies to every gamer on the planet. I play games to have fun. I work to make money. Not spend money to work.

CCP needs to rethink all things that are considered grinding and change it to something that is dynamic and scales well in various situations. Above all it should be fun, not work. And before anyone replies to my statement, there is a difference between effort and work.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#29 - 2011-12-19 04:00:31 UTC
running production or research out of a high sec POS allows you to avoid the Cartels like Goon but you won't compete with them on the markets.

While they don't seem to grasp the simple reality that for high sec miners it's not about cutting in to the profits of me, me, me goons, it's simply content in a game and if they keep it up those players will go find a game that actually provides real content rather than some fantasy RMT entropia, none of this really plays out with high sec POS ownership.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#30 - 2011-12-19 04:03:29 UTC
Ocih wrote:
running production or research out of a high sec POS allows you to avoid the Cartels like Goon but you won't compete with them on the markets.

While they don't seem to grasp the simple reality that for high sec miners it's not about cutting in to the profits of me, me, me goons, it's simply content in a game and if they keep it up those players will go find a game that actually provides real content rather than some fantasy RMT entropia, none of this really plays out with high sec POS ownership.


They own a good chunk of Tech moons. If you're building T2, you're paying them.

If you're manufacturing T1 at a POS for profit, well.... Ok.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#31 - 2011-12-19 04:05:23 UTC
Quote:
POS bashing can be a fun event if...


Not even if.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#32 - 2011-12-19 04:08:46 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ocih wrote:
running production or research out of a high sec POS allows you to avoid the Cartels like Goon but you won't compete with them on the markets.

While they don't seem to grasp the simple reality that for high sec miners it's not about cutting in to the profits of me, me, me goons, it's simply content in a game and if they keep it up those players will go find a game that actually provides real content rather than some fantasy RMT entropia, none of this really plays out with high sec POS ownership.


They own a good chunk of Tech moons. If you're building T2, you're paying them.

If you're manufacturing T1 at a POS for profit, well.... Ok.


What I just said was, High Sec Pos allows you to circumvent the Cartels. No high sec POS ops will compete with Sov station production. For the alliance holding the outpost cost of productions is next to 0.

As for Tech, it's all run by the Cartels. If you want to run T2 you need to buy it from one of the Mafia's in EVE. It's a necessary evil.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-19 04:22:00 UTC
Ocih wrote:
What I just said was, High Sec Pos allows you to circumvent the Cartels. No high sec POS ops will compete with Sov station production. For the alliance holding the outpost cost of productions is next to 0.


Actually, 0.0 production can't compete with all the highsec factory slots. Nullsec production capacity in stations is incredibly limited: we have like 10 slots available...in factory stations, which are "dedicated" to building things. We import the vast majority of things we need from highsec because (and CCP hasn't figured this out in eight years) highsec lends itself a thousand times more easily to building things than nullsec does.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-12-19 04:25:45 UTC
Why doesn't the fee the NPCs charge to build an item scale with the daily average the module sells for?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#35 - 2011-12-19 04:29:54 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Ocih wrote:
What I just said was, High Sec Pos allows you to circumvent the Cartels. No high sec POS ops will compete with Sov station production. For the alliance holding the outpost cost of productions is next to 0.


Actually, 0.0 production can't compete with all the highsec factory slots. Nullsec production capacity in stations is incredibly limited: we have like 10 slots available...in factory stations, which are "dedicated" to building things. We import the vast majority of things we need from highsec because (and CCP hasn't figured this out in eight years) highsec lends itself a thousand times more easily to building things than nullsec does.


This, and the Factory slots in null outposts cost what, a billion isk per to build (ignoring *all* other benefits of having an outpost, and unwilling to actually look up the cost of an outpost), that's a lot of hours to break even at 10k isk/hr (115 year breakeven).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2011-12-19 04:35:10 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Why doesn't the fee the NPCs charge to build an item scale with the daily average the module sells for?


That would require :effort: and not necessarily end up achieving the desired result as well as, say, much more limited highsec slots with bidding for their use.

The problem, in the end, is that there are slots all over the place in highsec, and almost none in player-built stations.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-12-19 04:41:24 UTC
Actually, one of the main problems is the fact that there's very few stations in nullsec which are upgraded to do both production and refining.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#38 - 2011-12-19 04:48:54 UTC
You guys are confusing easier with cheaper. When you look at POS fuel costs in Sov systems for parts production, make final products in Stations and run Industry as an efficient model it's better to be a nullbear than a high sec bear. Both by way of greed and bad mechanics, null crews don't want Industrial players in thier ranks though and for that, I say tough.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#39 - 2011-12-19 04:51:43 UTC
Ocih wrote:
You guys are confusing easier with cheaper. When you look at POS fuel costs in Sov systems for parts production, make final products in Stations and run Industry as an efficient model it's better to be a nullbear than a high sec bear. Both by way of greed and bad mechanics, null crews don't want Industrial players in thier ranks though and for that, I say tough.


You forgot shipping. Add in shipping HUGE volumes of raw materials down, and similarly huge volumes of finished products up, and there goes your Nullsec "efficiency" many times over.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#40 - 2011-12-19 05:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
RubyPorto wrote:
Ocih wrote:
You guys are confusing easier with cheaper. When you look at POS fuel costs in Sov systems for parts production, make final products in Stations and run Industry as an efficient model it's better to be a nullbear than a high sec bear. Both by way of greed and bad mechanics, null crews don't want Industrial players in thier ranks though and for that, I say tough.


You forgot shipping. Add in shipping HUGE volumes of raw materials down, and similarly huge volumes of finished products up, and there goes your Nullsec "efficiency" many times over.


You are doing it wrong.
Why are you shipping anything in? It's easier to min veld in high sec. Not better, easier. Everything you need to produce in null sec is in Null sec. You aren't exploiting it as a production tool. The only thing you need to ship in are datcores and last time I checked they can be brough in by the tens of thousands in a T2 cloaked hauler of if need be, a jump freighter.

Shipping out, same deal. Use Carriers and jump freighters. My legion costs more than a Carrier. it's just not convenient and the reasons are as stated before. Alliances recruit for PvP they don't recruit for logistics and Industry. Then they wonder why they have people only interested in sitting on gates waiting to blow **** up and see active members lists tumble in times of peace.
It's a situation of your own making.

Add on, with WH space, I have yet to wait more than 3 days before I could be in High sec in 4 jumps. An Indy player knows these things. PvP players don't.