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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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Intel Chip Problems AGAIN! (fixed for some, not for others)

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Ishivan Zock
Ater Solaris Imperium
#41 - 2011-12-16 19:21:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishivan Zock
Jimi Crackcorn wrote:
It seems to be getting even worse now as occasionally my screen will not come back on after going black. If I'm lucky alt tabbing will work but I've already had to restart the game twice after jumping now. The strange thing is that I can veiw the desktop just fine but when I switch to the game it's just completely black. Luckily this doesn't happen so often.


Did you do anything like change graphics drivers? or are you still running as you were before without any changes to your drivers?

Actually with the most recent driver, I just got the black screen problem where it doesnt return, luckily at the time I was running log server, so I will submit a new bug report... At the very end of it is lots and lots of red error messages... hopefully sheds some light on the problem.

The report ID is 123290.
Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
#42 - 2011-12-16 22:49:30 UTC
Ishivan Zock wrote:
Jimi Crackcorn wrote:
It seems to be getting even worse now as occasionally my screen will not come back on after going black. If I'm lucky alt tabbing will work but I've already had to restart the game twice after jumping now. The strange thing is that I can veiw the desktop just fine but when I switch to the game it's just completely black. Luckily this doesn't happen so often.


Did you do anything like change graphics drivers? or are you still running as you were before without any changes to your drivers?

Actually with the most recent driver, I just got the black screen problem where it doesnt return, luckily at the time I was running log server, so I will submit a new bug report... At the very end of it is lots and lots of red error messages... hopefully sheds some light on the problem.

The report ID is 123290.


Didn't change a thing. Just started happening out of the blue. I have updated my drivers since then though so we'll see if anything changes now.
MJ Incognito
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#43 - 2011-12-17 12:21:44 UTC
report submitted... this is out of control bad now with the game not recovering anymore.
Max Thunderbird
Thunderbird Kredit Corp
#44 - 2011-12-17 14:47:55 UTC
Had been posting about this problem in Crucible 1.02 Issues thread. Bug report had been submitted previously but I just attached a logserver file to the original bug report # 123053.

Obviously something changed with 1.02 to cause this problem.

What changes were made between 1.01 and 1.02?

Which of those changes could possibly cause this problem?

Bughunters, devs, whoever....it appears you need to be using a machine using Intel onboard graphics or you are unlikely to reproduce this. If you use a machine with Intel onboard graphics you will reproduce the problem when you load the client, when you undock and when you jump.

Could it have something to do with the window pinning code? That was gone in Crucible 1.00 and 1.01 and back in 1.02.
Arctur Vallfar
Knights Adamant
#45 - 2011-12-17 22:31:21 UTC
I'm noticing that the screen will now occasionally not recover when blacking out.

I will note that, at least with Windows 7 users, pressing CTRL+ALT+DLT to bring up the Task Manager screen and backing out will bring you back to your desktop. From there you can just maximize the game client and continue on. Doesn't solve the issue, but at least you won't have to restart your computer.

In the mean time... *Pours another glass of wine and continues to monitor this thread.*
cap Mal
Defense Advanced Research Program Agency
#46 - 2011-12-18 03:54:15 UTC
Report submitted. At least we know there was a version of crucible that didnt cause this issue.
Ishivan Zock
Ater Solaris Imperium
#47 - 2011-12-18 05:27:44 UTC
Well, if you haven't already, keep posting bug reports, and taking any data (and if you are someone with some idea of how to interpret the log server data, then keep posting any possible leads). Anyway, the dev team prolly won't deal with it till Monday, hopefully they will get to the bottom of it before Christmas break (Anyone want to bet ISK as to whether that will happen?)
Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
#48 - 2011-12-18 06:15:24 UTC
Ishivan Zock wrote:
Well, if you haven't already, keep posting bug reports, and taking any data (and if you are someone with some idea of how to interpret the log server data, then keep posting any possible leads). Anyway, the dev team prolly won't deal with it till Monday, hopefully they will get to the bottom of it before Christmas break (Anyone want to bet ISK as to whether that will happen?)



Well considering it's not affecting the majority of players, just "those idiots with onboard graphics" it probably won't be fixed for a looong long time. From what I understand this has been a problem up until crucible, which fixed it, at least until now. So how many years was that before it finally got fixed, only to be broken again?
Ishivan Zock
Ater Solaris Imperium
#49 - 2011-12-18 17:42:19 UTC
Actually, the problem didn't really start until they changed to the Carbon Based graphics in Incarna (at least for me that's when it started) which was only like 6-8 months ago, then it was fixed in Crucible (I don't know if they deliberately 'fixed' it or if it was just something they removed/changed after Incarna) I'm still optimistic provided we get regular updates from the devs. As CCP Vertex stated, they were pursuing leads, though I am curious as to what those leads are. I would also like to know if they are using a computer with the Intel Integrated chip to reproduce the issue. Also, CCP has *traditionally* provided excellent customer service, however, over the last year or two (and this is in MY OPINION) that started to lapse, but recently as Crucible has shown, I do get the impression that they are trying to recover on the Customer Service End of things, so I do think CCP Vertex is sincere when they are trying to replicate and address the issue. I know the issue is obviously frustrating to those of us currently experiencing it, and unless they were to fix it "right the hell now" it won't be fast enough, but for myself, so long as they keep us updated *daily* on progress (but let's face it they probably aren't working over the weekend), and give us some real information (basically treat us like the savvy Eve online users that we are) then I am satisfied for now.

Anyway, that's my rant.
Arngen Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-12-18 18:14:39 UTC
I hope they do fix it quickly, because it's gotten to the point of being basically unplayable for me. I'm playing on a Dell Latitude laptop, and the exact same situation as everybody else -- this problem was present last month when I started playing, it went away entirely when Crucible 1.00 was released, and it came back with a vengeance with 1.02.
Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
#51 - 2011-12-18 20:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimi Crackcorn
Just crashed as I jumped through to a gate camp. Lost my pod and my ship. I hope I'll be getting refunded for this crap. This black screen is getting so out of hand. It wasn't so bad when it would actually come back on but it's just getting stuck more and more now. Isn't there anything that can be done? Downgrading to xp? Anything!
Ishivan Zock
Ater Solaris Imperium
#52 - 2011-12-18 22:14:26 UTC
Yeah, it is getting out of hand, and I don't want to be limited to flying in "safe space" because there is the chance my comp might black out and not come back which would leave me vulnerable to a gank where I don't get a chance to respond... so let's see what the devs have to say on Monday... hopefully they have good leads (or maybe can just release an optional patch with all the UI updates OPTIONAL) or something,
MJ Incognito
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#53 - 2011-12-19 01:54:53 UTC
I noticed the daily server count dropped a lot on average after the patch that caused this. I can only think it's directly related to the complications it's making. So I'm assuming this thing is affecting somewhere in the range of 10,000 - 15,000 accounts based on the daily high drop off.
Ishivan Zock
Ater Solaris Imperium
#54 - 2011-12-19 02:47:01 UTC
So I've been googling for workarounds, and I have tried most of the reasonable suggestions that people who also experienced this issue have said, which mostly include editing registries having to do with TDR, which stands for Timeout Detection and Recovery. Supposedly Windows 7 and vista have this "feature" where if your system seems to "lag" or abruptly change framerate it causes a sudden shutdown and restart of the graphics driver, hence the black flicker. Also, in terms of the "black screen of death" there is a set number of times within a period of time that if this happens, the driver doesnt recover and instead waits an even longer time to restart. Now, in Vista there is a registry called "TdrDelay" that the default is "2" which means after 2 seconds of supposed "lag" it will do the reset. However, in Windows 7 they have gotten rid of or replaced with registry key with something entirely different. I tried adding the registry key as was suggested here:

http://www.sevenforums.com/crashes-debugging/51028-help-me-configure-registry-correctly-solve-tdr-issue.html

but that did not seem to solve the problem in Eve. Anyway, if anyone wants to try those steps feel free, like I said, being restricted to "high sec" in order to safeguard from computer problems really is boring...
Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
#55 - 2011-12-19 04:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimi Crackcorn
Ishivan Zock wrote:
So I've been googling for workarounds, and I have tried most of the reasonable suggestions that people who also experienced this issue have said, which mostly include editing registries having to do with TDR, which stands for Timeout Detection and Recovery. Supposedly Windows 7 and vista have this "feature" where if your system seems to "lag" or abruptly change framerate it causes a sudden shutdown and restart of the graphics driver, hence the black flicker. Also, in terms of the "black screen of death" there is a set number of times within a period of time that if this happens, the driver doesnt recover and instead waits an even longer time to restart. Now, in Vista there is a registry called "TdrDelay" that the default is "2" which means after 2 seconds of supposed "lag" it will do the reset. However, in Windows 7 they have gotten rid of or replaced with registry key with something entirely different. I tried adding the registry key as was suggested here:

http://www.sevenforums.com/crashes-debugging/51028-help-me-configure-registry-correctly-solve-tdr-issue.html

but that did not seem to solve the problem in Eve. Anyway, if anyone wants to try those steps feel free, like I said, being restricted to "high sec" in order to safeguard from computer problems really is boring...



No luck here. First tried increasing the Tdr delay which just.. well, caused a longer delay before crashing the driver. I then tried completely turning Tdr off, which I recommend against doing as upon running eve with it off your computer will have to be force restarted and Tdr turned back on. Reason being eve just completely hangs the computer. I could move the mouse freely but could not alt tab, ctrl alt del, nothing. Just completely locked on eve. I waited for over 10 minutes for it to respond and nothing. There goes that glimmer of hope :/

List of things that haven't worked for me:

1. Fiddling with the various graphical settings. Doesn't matter if they're high or low, same issue.

2. Changing resolution.

3. Disabling audio.

4. Disabling Tdr(Highly NOT recommended).

5. Window mode.

6. Disabling Windows 7 aero.

7. Disabling Windows 7 everything! (IE setting it to classic mode)

8. Jumping with the UI disabled(Grasping at straws here lol.)

9. Hope that the driver doesn't completely crash on the one gate camp in my route(Failed miserably here)

What has worked:

1. Alt tab just before jumping. Yay! A temporary solution.



Just wondering, is anyone here that's having this problem running a 32 bit windows 7, or even XP?
Ishivan Zock
Ater Solaris Imperium
#56 - 2011-12-19 05:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishivan Zock
Jimi Crackcorn wrote:
Ishivan Zock wrote:
So I've been googling for workarounds, and I have tried most of the reasonable suggestions that people who also experienced this issue have said, which mostly include editing registries having to do with TDR, which stands for Timeout Detection and Recovery. Supposedly Windows 7 and vista have this "feature" where if your system seems to "lag" or abruptly change framerate it causes a sudden shutdown and restart of the graphics driver, hence the black flicker. Also, in terms of the "black screen of death" there is a set number of times within a period of time that if this happens, the driver doesnt recover and instead waits an even longer time to restart. Now, in Vista there is a registry called "TdrDelay" that the default is "2" which means after 2 seconds of supposed "lag" it will do the reset. However, in Windows 7 they have gotten rid of or replaced with registry key with something entirely different. I tried adding the registry key as was suggested here:

http://www.sevenforums.com/crashes-debugging/51028-help-me-configure-registry-correctly-solve-tdr-issue.html

but that did not seem to solve the problem in Eve. Anyway, if anyone wants to try those steps feel free, like I said, being restricted to "high sec" in order to safeguard from computer problems really is boring...



No luck here. First tried increasing the Tdr delay which just.. well, caused a longer delay before crashing the driver. I then tried completely turning Tdr off, which I recommend against doing as upon running eve with it off your computer will have to be force restarted and Tdr turned back on. Reason being eve just completely hangs the computer. I could move the mouse freely but could not alt tab, ctrl alt del, nothing. Just completely locked on eve. I waited for over 10 minutes for it to respond and nothing. There goes that glimmer of hope :/


Hey so you were actually able to disable TDR? are you running windows 7? how did you do it, cause I added teh D_Word TdrDelay and set it to 0 and I still got the same black screen flicker, so I didn't think it did much of anything. In all likelyhood I did it wrong anyway. I had to add TdrDelay and TdrLevel as Dwords and then I just left them both at 0, and it had no effect whatsoever. So if I did it wrong, please let me know.
Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
#57 - 2011-12-19 05:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimi Crackcorn
Ishivan Zock wrote:


Hey so you were actually able to disable TDR? are you running windows 7? how did you do it, cause I added teh D_Word TdrDelay and set it to 0 and I still got the same black screen flicker, so I didn't think it did much of anything. In all likelyhood I did it wrong anyway.



Add TdrLevel and set that to 0, but as I said in my above post. Highly not recommended as it WILL crash your pc when you run eve. I did find a temp solution though :) try that out.
MJ Incognito
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#58 - 2011-12-19 05:40:23 UTC
After a **** ton of google searching, apparently the problem stems from interaction with the 3D drivers which is why some people can fix their problem by screwing around with those particular settings. NVIDA apparently patched this problem but other graphics cards have not.

So for the devs... are you looking into a problem where eve is interacting with the 3D? I mean, should it even be interacting with 3D displays?
CCP Vertex
C C P
C C P Alliance
#59 - 2011-12-19 10:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Vertex
Hi everyone, so after 3 long days of trying to reproduce this issue on our test machines (Yes I'm trying on the INTEL HD chipset) I am still unable to reproduce this issue.

However our graphics programmers have made various graphics related fixes that may have a positive impact on your issue.

Their fixes are currently on the Singularity test server and I would like to ask any of you that are experiencing this issue to please connect to Singularity and reply to this thread if your issue has been fixed.

To connect to Singularity follow these instructions: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sisi_Launcher

I will continue to look into this issue

**CCP Vertex  |  Senior Development Manager ** | @CCP_Vertex
MJ Incognito
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#60 - 2011-12-19 11:34:20 UTC
CCP Vertex wrote:
Hi everyone, so after 3 long days of trying to reproduce this issue on our test machines (Yes I'm trying on the INTEL HD chipset) I am still unable to reproduce this issue.

However our graphics programmers have made various graphics related fixes that may have a positive impact on your issue.

Their fixes are currently on the Singularity test server and I would like to ask any of you that are experiencing this issue to please connect to Singularity and reply to this thread if your issue has been fixed.

To connect to Singularity follow these instructions: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sisi_Launcher

I will continue to look into this issue


1 plane ticket to Iceland and I'll be happy to loan you my laptop for test :-)