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Core skills negatively impact the new player experience

First post
Author
Jarod Garamonde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-08-10 16:50:22 UTC
Khadhir Hashul wrote:

(message truncated, no coherent argument detected)



The problem here is that you want to start out at the top. That's not how EVE works. Your SP isn't the only thing that matters. It's mostly how YOU fly the ship, not how your character does.
You NEED that skill training time to learn how to effectively play the game at each level.
Flying a HAC is not the same as flying a T1 Cruiser. Flying a Frigate of any kind is completely different from nearly everything else.

If you ask me, I think everyone should be at "all skills to Lvl5" on SiSi, just to show players who think like you exactly how wrong you truly are when you speculate things like this.

This is one of the many reasons CCP won't let guys who take a year out of the game "buy back" their "lost" skill points. You need to progress, naturally, or you will end up hating the game and quitting. Removing all skills would require a pretty massive overhaul of the game, and lots of stuff would be broken. Not to mention the ability to immediately jump into a carrier the day you start playing would make the game incredibly boring.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#42 - 2014-08-14 14:24:43 UTC
OH no you mean i cant start with max skills!!!!!! i guess other mmos should let you start with the best gear in the game at lvl 1 Too

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-10-07 04:22:51 UTC
they should start you out with purpz and leganderiez 2!
XxGITxX
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-10-24 07:08:23 UTC
Just be glad that you started playing after they removed learnkng skills. Kids these days don't realise how lucky they are :D
Jenna Olgidar
OutLawed Country Inc.
Outlaw Nation.
#45 - 2014-11-04 14:02:24 UTC
Yeah I Don't think giving everyone 20 mil SP making the game better for anyone.

I think that all Standard Core skills should be injected from the start. i.e. mechanic, shield operation, etc

now i think new players should start with some unallicated skill points. like maybe 3 to 4 mil. I believe that is enough for someone to get into a ship of there choice and possibly of fitting.

however with someone that knows what there doing they can take them skill points make a cyno alt or gang squad with trial a players and go camp a gate or do something and cause massive problems.

-Olga

So yeah like my post. -Olga

Signal11th
#46 - 2014-11-10 14:41:38 UTC
One of the most idiotic ideas I've heard recently. Personally it's one of the major reasons I play EVE the fact I don't have to be some basement dwelling window licker who can spend all day killing chickens.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#47 - 2014-11-25 01:17:46 UTC
The three skills I would endorse changing start with CPU Management and PG Management, as ships are just crippled without them. They'd still be high priorities to train at 1% (with the base CPU and PG of ships changed to preserve their current stats at level 5).

The final skill is AWU, which I would gate behind WU 4 instead of WU 5.

These changes would help gankers a little, but less than people seem to think, as most ganking is not done by low skilled characters any more. The changes would also indirectly harm us, as lowskilled haulers and miners would be more able to fit a tank to their ships.

I'd be for the change for what it would do to new players and (as with any change to the game) I'd also seek to exploit it a little, but that would be a minor factor.


I don't endorse wholesale removal of the core skills, just adjustment of the absolutely mandatory ones.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-11-25 03:50:02 UTC
I have been spending time in the Rookie Help channel and listening to the new players. They are not complaining about skills, they are trying to figure out how to fly the ship, how to make some isk, why autopilot is a bad idea and where did all the asteroids go.

No, a 20 million sp starter pack would not be for the new player, no matter how you pretty up the rhetoric. It would be for the alt, the second character when you know what skills you wish you had trained the first time. The New Player Experience needs work. That is why I am in there listening and taking notes. But the learning curve is not solved by using a catapult to launch them half way up the side of the cliff face.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2014-11-25 10:41:51 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I have been spending time in the Rookie Help channel and listening to the new players. They are not complaining about skills, they are trying to figure out how to fly the ship, how to make some isk, why autopilot is a bad idea and where did all the asteroids go.

No, a 20 million sp starter pack would not be for the new player, no matter how you pretty up the rhetoric. It would be for the alt, the second character when you know what skills you wish you had trained the first time. The New Player Experience needs work. That is why I am in there listening and taking notes. But the learning curve is not solved by using a catapult to launch them half way up the side of the cliff face.

m



What about a better range of civilian modules? Things that will only go onto a rookie ship but are faster than skilling to an extent within the first week. Also easier access to these for that time?
Longtom McGregor
2ndAmendment
#50 - 2014-11-27 18:42:31 UTC

Set new character skills to absolutely zero starting out
new characters can not even leave a station until they've figured out how to train frigates to 1
Cant mine until they've figured out how to train mining to 1
Set new player bank accounts to zero.

I was shocked at how many skills my little new player had...

This should not be...
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#51 - 2014-11-27 18:50:08 UTC
The Hamilton wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I have been spending time in the Rookie Help channel and listening to the new players. They are not complaining about skills, they are trying to figure out how to fly the ship, how to make some isk, why autopilot is a bad idea and where did all the asteroids go.

No, a 20 million sp starter pack would not be for the new player, no matter how you pretty up the rhetoric. It would be for the alt, the second character when you know what skills you wish you had trained the first time. The New Player Experience needs work. That is why I am in there listening and taking notes. But the learning curve is not solved by using a catapult to launch them half way up the side of the cliff face.

m



What about a better range of civilian modules? Things that will only go onto a rookie ship but are faster than skilling to an extent within the first week. Also easier access to these for that time?


I can support a better range of civilian items, gives newbies a cheap even for them way to try things out if they arent sure what they want to do.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-12-08 03:29:41 UTC
I will ask about better civ stuff when module tiericide hits (if I am still on CSM)

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2014-12-08 07:19:44 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I will ask about better civ stuff when module tiericide hits (if I am still on CSM)

m

Yeah, what happened with module tiericide? Haven't heard anything since that first dev blog.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Rain6637
NulzSec
#54 - 2014-12-08 07:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
core skills are the most OP skills by rank, for just how many ships and activities they influence.
Signal11th
#55 - 2014-12-12 16:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Rain6637 wrote:
core skills are the most OP skills by rank, for just how many ships and activities they influence.



and also amongst the easiest to get. Most new players just suffer from the same mind set that most kids have recently, get the biggest thing possible for the least amount of work.

Eve is enjoyable because if you put the effort in you get the rewards.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Rain6637
NulzSec
#56 - 2014-12-12 17:06:59 UTC
wait that's what i said. theyre OP because their rank is low.

as you become more of an experienced player, the only people left to kill you are less experienced players. its not so crazy to think less experienced players can harm you. im pretty sure the purpose of SP is not invulnerability.
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#57 - 2015-01-01 04:39:44 UTC
Wouldn't we need new skills for dreads.
and marauders.
and hacs
and t3s
and recon
and covops
and eaf
and probably some other ships because they have fitting skill requirement prereqs?
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#58 - 2015-01-09 16:13:45 UTC
Just people that want it easier because they don't want to waste time to train Capacitor skills to 5 in order to better use their cap for higher regen, capacity, gun/tank/ab usage.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Rain6637
NulzSec
#59 - 2015-01-09 16:43:14 UTC
I've said it in a lot of places now, and I'll say it again here. I disagree with skill prerequisites for T2 ships being so extensive. Their selection is hasty and don't represent a strong foundation for their ships. Seriously, the person who picked out the skills to comprise prerequisites... do they even play?

The message to new players is very clear: if you want this ship, you must pay us for some months of subscription. It's one of the most blatant examples of money-for-stuff in EVE.

Along the left side of that table you'll see a number, which is the total training time multiplier for the level V skills required as prerequisites. There's a pretty clear correlation between time and ship size. "specialization is specialization hurr durr more time," is about the depth of thought behind the list.

Couple things I think should be changed:

skill level I prerequisites to allow T2 ships to undock within 2 weeks at most (for the Marauder, for example). This way, rookies who choose the hasty route to a shiny T2 ship get what they want, and also get what they trained for: a weak ship.

OR

devs spend more time creating a thoughtful list of prerequisites that represent a solid foundation of skills for the same amount of training as the dumb / current list.

OP's gripe about core skills being responsible for some type of rift between themselves and veterans is bollocks, as it's one of the core mechanics of EVE. However, the structure of skills laid out in ship prerequisites is bollocks, too.
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