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Crime watch Idea - Logoff Mechanics

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Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#1 - 2015-01-09 00:56:33 UTC
Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?

I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.

As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.

So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.


What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client?
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-01-09 01:40:56 UTC
Globby wrote:
Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?

I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.

As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.

So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.


What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client?


I fully agree. +1

A True Champion of High Security Space
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-01-09 01:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Globby wrote:
Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?

I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.

As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.

So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.


What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client?

You'd think having recently found a way to castrate CONCORD would be enough for some players...

Quote:
being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction

A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.

You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect.
Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#4 - 2015-01-09 03:38:55 UTC
Quote:

A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.

You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect.


The issue at hand is bumpees are escaping player versus player interaction by exiting the client, which is nearly as broken as a tackled capital ship being able to disappear from space by exiting the client.

Bumping someone doesn't allow you to avoid content.
Yolandar
CSR Strategic Reserves
Citizen's Star Republic
#5 - 2015-01-09 08:38:06 UTC
Globby wrote:
Quote:

A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.

You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect.


The issue at hand is bumpees are escaping player versus player interaction by exiting the client, which is nearly as broken as a tackled capital ship being able to disappear from space by exiting the client.

Bumping someone doesn't allow you to avoid content.


Have an alt aggress him. If freighter pilots expected to have a webby alt to escape, you can damn well do the same.
Jeez...some ppl
Siegfried Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
Freighter Friends
#6 - 2015-01-09 08:54:02 UTC
Globby I think you're upset that you aren't as skilled as other bumpers out there. I vaguely remember you scoring low during the bump bowling event and also lost during the 8 hour bump-an-orca-to-the-bahromab-gate event as well.
Dilligafmofo
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
New Miner's Union
#7 - 2015-01-09 08:55:56 UTC
I'm sure CCP with change a whole mechanic just because you are unable to gain a killmail with the easiest form of PvP ingame.

Have you tried shooting shuff that is capable of shooting back? it is far more fun
Ro Fenrios
Armilies Corporation
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#8 - 2015-01-09 09:42:52 UTC
Aggro the ship with something. Does that not prevent it from disappearing? Even if it could warp to emergency exit spot w/e, you should still be able to combat scan it down. There are many other mechanics to pvp that has more issues tbh, but this really is not one of those.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#9 - 2015-01-09 10:00:08 UTC
Ro Fenrios wrote:
Aggro the ship with something.
This.

Also, wrong forum.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#10 - 2015-01-09 10:20:45 UTC
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2015-01-09 10:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
So, Globby and CODE don't want to sacrifice a Noob ship anymore when their bumps fail?

For the sake of argument: What are the downsides of this mechanic? You can only do it on grid with the target? You get a criminal timer for pressing the button? You can't warp away from the grid or leave or self-destruct your suspect/criminal timered ship?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#12 - 2015-01-09 11:24:26 UTC
Well I mean, using a noob ship is easy but it requires you have another account, which I do and I always have it ready, but this method is just easier and works better. If you log off while being bumped you just disappear- completely removing you from any player versus player interaction. I'm not saying that it's hard currently to stop this, just that it makes no sense to have to shoot him to keep him in the game when you're obviously interacting with him.

The downsides of this mechanics are equal to the downsides of aggressing with an alt, nothing.

I just think that people should be able to keep people that they are interacting with with them for at least one 15 minute cycle.

Thank you Ezwal for moving my thread and being the epitome of forums moderation. I thought I put this in Features and Ideas Discussion.
Aran Hotchkiss
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-01-09 11:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Aran Hotchkiss
I guess what irks me the most about the gank game is the whole arrangement of bastardised Macharials for maximum bumping, the whole fleet of gank catalysts geared up for maximum dps/isk, and how the fight's outcome is over before it's even begun - you've got banking down to an art, got every detail of the engine mechanics mapped out and you're very good at gaming the system even with CONCORD's presence.

So when I hear that freighter pilots can game the system their own way by just loging off to avoid being held down by Machariels (such a pretty ship btw) I'm fairly... Meh about it.

For this thread to achieve anything being implemented you'd need to have a large/majority, coherent support for this, and since both sides of this argument (gankers/gankees) see the other as a group of well... Whiney bitches, I don't see this happening.

You should have enough control over your herd of cats to make them understand. If they constantly make misstakes, get better cats.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2015-01-09 11:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Globby wrote:
Well I mean, using a noob ship is easy but it requires you have another account, which I do and I always have it ready, but this method is just easier and works better. If you log off while being bumped you just disappear- completely removing you from any player versus player interaction. I'm not saying that it's hard currently to stop this, just that it makes no sense to have to shoot him to keep him in the game when you're obviously interacting with him.

The downsides of this mechanics are equal to the downsides of aggressing with an alt, nothing.

How about friends? I get to hear almost every day how awesome they are in EVE. Roll

The downside if aggressing with a Rookie ship is that you lose the Rookie ship and Concord spawns, the Rookie ship pilot gets a timer, sec status loss, and the aggressed party gets a kill right on the Rookie ship pilot.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#15 - 2015-01-09 11:56:41 UTC
I can see your motivation behind this, and I agree that logging off to avoid PvP is a cheesy tactic regardless of the context. I appreciate your "once per 24 hour" cap to limit abuse, but I'm still going to have to go with a "no" here.

If you want to aggress someone, aggress them and suffer the consequences. Plain and simple. If you're worried about a freighter that you're bumping logging off, keep a pilot in a sacrificial noobship handy to aggress the freighter immediately.

What do gankers tell freighter pilots?

If you want to haul effectively you need to bring friends and use all the tools at your disposal instead of whining for "easy mode".

The same applies to ganking sir.

If you want to gank effectively, you need to bring friends and use all the tools at your disposal instead of whining for "easy mode".



-1. Existing game mechanics effectively allow this already, you just need to phone a friend.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Ro Fenrios
Armilies Corporation
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#16 - 2015-01-09 12:01:59 UTC
If pumping would result in aggression timer, that would cause alot of trouble ingame. Imagine fleet op in null sec. It is way past your prime time zone and its getting late. Your fleet has a pair of supercarriers accompanied by carrier group and sub capital support. The fleet is returning home through gate travel due to heavy jump fatigue. Due to fleet size everyone is getting pumped all the time you land on gates. You finally reach your staging system and supers jump to their safe posses. Normally fleet would disband here, but due to new pump aggro mechanics, those supers can't log off for next 14 minutes. The fleet has to wait on standby through this time. Not nice.

And this is only one example. Similarly right click and start aggro timer -button would be bad idea. Sure it would make your ganking maybe little easier, but in meanwhile half of eve is getting trolled as people keep activating each others timers. Just use noob ship please.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-01-09 13:08:57 UTC
Globby wrote:
Quote:

A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.

You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect.


The issue at hand is bumpees are escaping player versus player interaction by exiting the client, which is nearly as broken as a tackled capital ship being able to disappear from space by exiting the client.

Bumping someone doesn't allow you to avoid content.


Target + activate offensive module.

It's 100% under your original proposition (simple, works every time) and achieves exactly the result you wish (15min logoff timer).
Quadima
HyperDreams Studios
#18 - 2015-01-09 13:37:40 UTC
I propose replacing cartoon bumping with ... you know... real physics.

Reality:
Object A ( car ) collides with object B (wall) ... Car becomes a big pile of contorted metal.

EVE:
Object A ( Machariel ) collides with Object B (Freighter) ... they bump each other like balloons. Really ?

Eve is "Real" eh?

---
So instead of bumping, both objects would take damage when their impact speed is high enough, and if the damage is too high, the weaker one would go... "pop!"
Good luck bumping massive metal things with tiny fragile stuff...

Ah yes, and when damage is involved it's considered an attack. Bump someone causing damage = CONCORDOKKEN.


Flame on !
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-01-09 14:28:28 UTC
Wait. You're not trolling?

Wow.


If you want to bring in game conflict, man up and flag up.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#20 - 2015-01-09 14:31:37 UTC
Dilligafmofo wrote:
I'm sure CCP with change a whole mechanic just because you are unable to gain a killmail with the easiest form of PvP ingame.

Have you tried shooting shuff that is capable of shooting back? it is far more fun



I'm not sure how you can call shooting a really large slow ship THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY OFFENSIVE CAPABILITY play vs play.

I know, I know, I'm picking nits here, but it seems illogical to use the VERSES term when it is impossible to fight back.

I'm OK w/ the R-click to give a 15 min log of flag, BUT ONLY IF freighters can activate an ECM burst module that doesn't flag them to concord or other players and only works on players locking them. This would be both fair and balanced.

You get your desired "impossible to get away button" and they get an "impossible to catch" button.
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