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4K textures?

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The Mach
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-01-08 19:18:04 UTC
4000x4000 textures for ships and stations was brought up at fanfest, but we still don't have them. Make 4k textures an option! pleaseeeee? Roll You said you would..
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2015-01-08 20:08:54 UTC
pretty sure they said they could not that they would

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-01-08 20:16:20 UTC
+1. I have to agree with OP, especially inside the stations where I can still see pixles the size of frigates, and for outside stations since there aren't 3000 stations in view at one time. Planets and moons also a bonus. Gates. Oh and I think the warp-tunnel is time for a bump-up in quality. Make lots of sliders so we can adjust freely various objects.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#4 - 2015-01-09 05:18:20 UTC
4k textures would take up 16x the size as current 1k textures. i don't think thats realistic. Even the jump to 2k textures would quadruple model size

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-09 05:28:43 UTC
I won't beg, and it's hardly my highest priority when looking at the game, but the new lighting engine does allow us to see in exquisite detail just how low-res some of these old ship skins are.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6 - 2015-01-09 06:15:02 UTC
Quattras Peione wrote:
I won't beg, and it's hardly my highest priority when looking at the game, but the new lighting engine does allow us to see in exquisite detail just how low-res some of these old ship skins are.


They published a dev blog acknowledging as much and stating that they're going to be updating the models to be more ... photogenic with the new lighting system.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2015-01-09 06:47:05 UTC
Also see the Dev blog about the new optional update system they are trialling that lets the client download on demand, rather than all at once, which they have said is a possible lead in for optional high res textures. Or.... Post in the correct high res textures thread, not a new one.
Quadima
HyperDreams Studios
#8 - 2015-01-09 13:27:43 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
4k textures would take up 16x the size as current 1k textures. i don't think thats realistic. Even the jump to 2k textures would quadruple model size


No it won't. Texture compression becomes more and more efficient as the size of the texture increases.

4k x 4k would probably be only 3-5 times bigger in size than 1k x 1k.

---
I have a feeling CCP will introduce something like that after the "download on demand" thing is implemented.
Because forcing everyone to download 20 GB of textures that only 5% of the people with high-end videocards will use is not ok.
But with the on-demand stuff... everyone will only download /store what's appropriate for their PC.

And yes, this game definitely needs better textures, everything seems pixelated as hell on modern monitors (QHD and UHD), especially with the new shaders just introduced.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2015-01-09 14:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Quadima wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
4k textures would take up 16x the size as current 1k textures. i don't think thats realistic. Even the jump to 2k textures would quadruple model size


No it won't. Texture compression becomes more and more efficient as the size of the texture increases.

4k x 4k would probably be only 3-5 times bigger in size than 1k x 1k.


Because this statement didn't sound right to me, I checked with CCP Mankiller, who pointed out that while that may be true for some compression schemes, it's not the case for Microsoft's DirectDraw Surface (DDS) format, which is how we deliver our textures. Generally, doubling the pixel resolution of a texture in .dds format will require 4x the space.

The main issues that would have to be resolved to deliver higher-res textures are:


  1. Additional client disk space and associated delivery bandwidth on both the client and host ends.

  2. Putting in place a scheme to allow some assets to be delivered optionally so that players who can't use the new feature don't bear the burden.

  3. Changes to game-engine texture management so that new, larger textures don't kill performance.

  4. Changes to our process for integrating art assets into the game to accommodate any new needs established by the changes to address (3)


All of this is a lot of work.

We're currently working on a package of changes to how we're delivering textures for PBR-shaded space objects that should provide some obvious quality improvement with a lot less low-level re-engineering of our graphics engine than what I just described, because we think the "bang for the buck" is a lot greater.

That said, everyone on the team knows that there's a lot of player interest in increasing our raw texture resolution, and we continue to discuss what has to be done to make it happen. It's just not so far been where we've felt we can most efficiently improve the look of the game.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#10 - 2015-01-09 14:59:01 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Because this statement didn't sound right to me, I checked with CCP Mankiller, who pointed out that while that may be true for some compression schemes, it's not the case for Microsoft's DirectDraw Surface (DDS) format, which is how we deliver our textures. Generally, doubling the pixel resolution of a texture in .dds format will require 4x the space.

The main issues that would have to be resolved to deliver higher-res textures are:


  1. Additional client disk space and associated delivery bandwidth on both the client and host ends.

  2. Putting in place a scheme to allow some assets to be delivered optionally so that players who can't use the new feature don't bear the burden.

  3. Changes to game-engine texture management so that new, larger textures don't kill performance.

  4. Changes to our process for integrating art assets into the game to accommodate any new needs established by the changes to address (3)


All of this is a lot of work.

We're currently working on a package of changes to how we're delivering textures for PBR-shaded space objects that should provide some obvious quality improvement with a lot less low-level re-engineering of our graphics engine than what I just described, because we think the "bang for the buck" is a lot greater.

That said, everyone on the team knows that there's a lot of player interest in increasing our raw texture resolution, and we continue to discuss what has to be done to make it happen. It's just not so far been where we've felt we can most efficiently improve the look of the game.
Nice to see you're working on this! EVE looks amazingly pretty; can't imagine how well could it look with these textures. Thanks for the info!
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2015-01-09 15:05:18 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
Nice to see you're working on this! EVE looks amazingly pretty; can't imagine how well could it look with these textures. Thanks for the info!


I should clarify: The art/graphics team is not right now working on the engineering to support higher-resolution textures because we've decided that certain other changes will be a better use of our time. However, it's still a possibility for the future.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-01-09 15:12:40 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Komodo Askold wrote:
Nice to see you're working on this! EVE looks amazingly pretty; can't imagine how well could it look with these textures. Thanks for the info!


I should clarify: The art/graphics team is not right now working on the engineering to support higher-resolution textures because we've decided that certain other changes will be a better use of our time. However, it's still a possibility for the future.
*crushed dreams, sadness, overall depression* ButButbut... WANT! Cry

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2015-01-09 15:59:18 UTC
Quadima wrote:
...
And yes, this game definitely needs better textures, everything seems pixelated as hell on modern monitors (QHD and UHD), especially with the new shaders just introduced.


'Modern' as in, 'I has 500000000x1229384849844003398544885483 pixels, mekk goodder looking stuff, naow!'.

May I suggest you take a look at another spaceship game?

At the time of the release, my computer was too fast for fluid gameplay and the looks were fine too:

Wing Commander II

With very high resolution pixels, this action game used to keep me busy for many hours a day. And the maximum resolution was an astonishing 320x200 on a 14" flicker-screen.

Compared to that, EVE looks 'better'.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#14 - 2015-01-09 16:22:09 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Quadima wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
4k textures would take up 16x the size as current 1k textures. i don't think thats realistic. Even the jump to 2k textures would quadruple model size


No it won't. Texture compression becomes more and more efficient as the size of the texture increases.

4k x 4k would probably be only 3-5 times bigger in size than 1k x 1k.


Because this statement didn't sound right to me, I checked with CCP Mankiller, who pointed out that while that may be true for some compression schemes, it's not the case for Microsoft's DirectDraw Surface (DDS) format, which is how we deliver our textures. Generally, doubling the pixel resolution of a texture in .dds format will require 4x the space.

virttual high five

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Lara Wet
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-01-09 19:15:16 UTC
I love EVE's graphics,

I do hope CCP do not dwindle with more years of time to introduce some newer higher-end features! The competitors are here, now and "soon" in some cases. They have the 1-4k+ textures, they have tech for DX10+ and up. They have the physics, tessellation and further AA options and awe.

2012 nearly all those dreams and idea's CCP had, talked about and demoed! (Are they still there?)

It's now 2015 rolling on.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#16 - 2015-01-10 22:30:34 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Komodo Askold wrote:
Nice to see you're working on this! EVE looks amazingly pretty; can't imagine how well could it look with these textures. Thanks for the info!


I should clarify: The art/graphics team is not right now working on the engineering to support higher-resolution textures because we've decided that certain other changes will be a better use of our time. However, it's still a possibility for the future.
Owww :(

Well, at least it's a possibility :)
Soden Rah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-01-10 23:04:06 UTC
Can I request AA that actually reduces Aliasing... because that's the biggest universal graphics flaw I see in game.

Much as I would like higher-res' textures.

Also, as of now having AA on kills my frame-rate [and general game performance].

Happened at the same time as PBR was introduced.

However I can't actually see any difference between AA off and AA on full so it's not actually made any difference.
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#18 - 2015-01-11 00:12:59 UTC
Soden Rah wrote:
Can I request AA that actually reduces Aliasing... because that's the biggest universal graphics flaw I see in game.

Much as I would like higher-res' textures.

Also, as of now having AA on kills my frame-rate [and general game performance].

Happened at the same time as PBR was introduced.

However I can't actually see any difference between AA off and AA on full so it's not actually made any difference.


Dynamic Super Resolution seems to work better than AA (assuming your GPU can handle it, as far as I know only the 900-series Nvidia and a few of the latest AMD cards can do it) but 1) it only works if you are in full screen, and 2) Eve's UI scaling only goes to 125% so rendering in 4K isn't advisable :)
CERA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#19 - 2015-01-11 06:48:29 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
4k textures would take up 16x the size as current 1k textures. i don't think thats realistic. Even the jump to 2k textures would quadruple model size

What's your point?
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#20 - 2015-01-11 22:19:28 UTC
CERA Elitist wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
4k textures would take up 16x the size as current 1k textures. i don't think thats realistic. Even the jump to 2k textures would quadruple model size

What's your point?

Band width for the downloads.
Server/client load dealing with the additional memory use.
Required memory and process capabilities that up the minimum computer specs.
Are just a few that come to mind.
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