Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I don't know why you guys are still arguing with him. No offense meant, but you simply don't have enough experience to be taken seriously in this discussion Joe. Its pretty clear you have a very deluded understanding of pvp in general, let alone how missiles fit into it.

Dude, seriously.... STFU!!!!

All you ever do is comment on how I have no idea what I'm talking about, yet you set no VIABLE reason as to why the suggestion can't be implemented at least on the test server for a short period of time.

The only suggestions as to why this can't happen are

1) Missiles are fine how they are

2) Would make missiles OP

3) Missiles are designed to have a slow engagement time

To counter that

1) Missiles are not fine, or else you would see them used more widely in fleets other than drakes, bomber, and tengus.
Also, you would see missile boats in more mixed fleets serving a solid purpose instead of just a take it or leave it potential more dps. A solid missile boat fleet isn't a valid comment because you never see solid projectile turrets because it makes each ship more effective, you never see a solid laser fleet because it makes the fleet more effective, so why do missiles need to be in a solid missile fleet in order to be more effective? A turret boat of any kind can fit into a fleet of any kind and serve a solid purpose. Missiles are the only primary weapon system that can't.

2) It would not make missiles OP, it would simply make them more effective in ENGAGEMENT TIME and NOTHING ELSE. They would have the same dps, the same range, and still be out alpha'd by turrets. There is no aspect of this that would imbalance the game.( Unless you consider missiles having a faster engagement time to be an imbalance, which if you do, You're probably a turret pilot that doesn't want more competition.)

3) Missiles are designed to to have a slow engagement time. However, there engagement time is so much lower than turrets that is causes an imbalance.


If turret pilots are worried about missiles coming in and out ranging them, then they need to have a mixed fleet to defend against this.

(Here's a key point)
Missiles having a faster engagement time while still having the same dps and effect on target doesn't change the fact that a turret fleet would still be outgunned by a ranged missile fleet reguardless of if the change is made or not.
The only factor that would change is that turret fleet would be more willing to mix in missile boats for range if they engaged faster so that they could put pressure on the fleet out ranging them sooner.

Those of you trying to give suggestions as to why this wouldn't work have no idea if it wouldn't work or imbalance the game because it has never been implemented.

So to you I say...

Why not put your words to the test and ask CCP to implement this on the test server so we all know for sure.

If i'm wrong, I'll say i'm wrong and agree with you that it imbalances the game(though I'm pretty sure it won't)

However, I get the feeling that if it works and brings more depth into the game as well as more challenge and more pvp'ers, something leads me to believe that ya'll won't be willing to admit that you were wrong the way I would.

I'm not going to believe you that it won't work until I at least see it tested. I'm also 100% certain that ya'll have not idea how it's going to turn out either until it's tested. You're just assuming it won't work, OR you're saying it won't work because you don't want more missile boats on the battlefield.

If you're not willing to see it tested to prove me wrong, then your suggestions as to why it won't work have no merit in this thread because you're not willing to prove it. So........Prove it.

Edit.... One more thing.... Anyone who uses the "Missiles already go much faster than they should" excuse are overlooking one thing. Why are projectile turrets instant damage? I mean, They're firing a PROJECTILE. Not a beam of light. So, they shouldn't have an instant engagement time.

Well, Joe?

How about you get a bit more pvp experience under your belt before trying to "fix" the game?

Even though missiles would be better able to "catch" these targets, they would still be useless against them because these targets would be able to ourrun their explosion radius negating any damage.

So you would still need a mixed fleet with ships able to dps those fast movers.

Like I said, the only thing that would change is the amount of time it would take to engage the target. Dps would still be the same because you still have the same rate of fire. Effect on target would still be the same because exp velocity and exp radius would still be the same, and these two factors determine how hard you hit the target and if the target can escape the explosion.
You're also exchanging increased velocity for decreased flight time, so they'll even still get the same range

So again, nothing changes for missiles other than the amount of time take to engage a target.

There is no point arguing despite everything he does an ostrich impression and doesn't listen

Like I said, while there are skills and modules that increase missile damage, it is exp velocity and explosion radius that determine how much of that damage effects the target. Again, there are skills that will increase this, but never more than the displayed dps. There is one module that will increase the amount of effective dps on target and those are target painters. However, like turrets, the have an optimal and effective range. They are much less effective against items inside or outside of that range.

Now, another thing you can look at is that missile boats never have more damage than turrets. If you can find a missile boat that puts out more damage than a relatively related turret boat, then I can probably show you a turret boat with a bad fit.

Like I said though, increasing missile velocity will not effect anything but the engagement time on target, HOWEVER, a turret boat at their optimal range will still have a slight advantage over a missile boat because it will be instant. Even at 10 meters, the missile still has a very slight flight time, so the turret boat would still have a slight upper hand. I'm not trying to make missiles just as effective in engagement time as turrets, however, I am suggesting that there doesn't need to be as much of an advantage. Sure, turrets deserve to have a greater advantage because they're limited by optimal, but as it sits now, they have so much of an advantage that fitting missiles into a mixed fleet is redundant when you can have more alpha with a mix of close and short range turrets. If you're in a turret fleet and you end up getting out ranged by a missile fleet in any situation, then you did something wrong.

Of course, I could have argued that comparing raw EFT DPS figures in isolation is pretty stupid, it's the classic EFT warrior thing, tossing about EFT numbers without interpreting them - or their host platform - properly. But it was easier to just play by your own rules.

I also see plenty off Hawks, Hookbills and Vengeances as well. I also know that missile ships have advantages in range and consistent dps at those ranges. Turrets only surpass them really when you get too the 100+ area