Crime & Punishment

Bloody hell, I'm gonna loose my money ain't I?
... The combined might of Codies sperging is blotting out the nicely formed and well researched arguments set forth by my favorite space monkey Lucas :(

D.

I'm sorry Admiral, please don't pull rank on me, I hate peeling potatos

D.

Danalee is a marmite, not an idiot. :P

Of course not. Its stupid to say “Okay, im gonna be hauling 10 billlion in stuff in 5 minutes, need you all to log into your logi now.” Thats no way to ask for a favor. Instead, you say “Okay, ive got this stuff I need to move, is anyone free to help scout/logi? If not, then ill wait.” You know, kinda like how every other thing is done in EVE when you need help.

Its terrible gameplay design if all youre going to do is sit in the station all day waiting for someone to say “Hey, I need logi help!”. Good thing the game isnt designed that way. Good thing people can ask beforehand, before they haul, whether anyone can help. Good thing people have, you know, communication skills beyond “I need help in the next 5 minutes or im dead”.

All of this, is, of course, ignoring the fact that many people have alts.




I dont remember this coming up in our discussion, but okay, so what sort of risk should be added to compensate for the higher reward for the freighter pilot?




Yeah, how boring it is, to grind levels. How boring it is to grind for ISK. How boring it is, to run the same dungeon 10 times in order to farm x amount of Y items in order to craft the Legendary Weapon.

Why do games have such boring aspects? Why cant I log on to world of warcraft for the first time, and instantly get the best items and be level 80 without doing anything? This is essentially the jist of your argument, and its easy to see why its wrong. There are always aspects of the game that people consider boring. But they serve a purpose, an important purpose.

Between choosing whether to have someone dump 10 billion isk into your account, and having to grind even 1 billion isk through mining, hauling, etc, im certain that 99% of people would choose the former. Yes, hauling a billion isk in modules from point A to point B, is boring. Its boring to watch, boring to do. But people dont do it because they cant find anything else to do. They dont haul because theyre forced to. They do it because they want to, because theyre doing it for a reason. They do it for ISK. They do it for moving their ships closer to a staging area. Its no different from grinding your levels to become level 80, or grinding a dungeon to get that legendary weapon youve always wanted.



But I think you misunderstand the preferences of the general hauler pilot. The reason they haul to make isk, is because its one of the most easiest methods of making isk, just like afk mining. You just have to queue up the route, autopilot, and go watch a movie, or play another game. A lot of them are in it specifically because of how little, how inactive the mechanics, are.



That sounds like basic game design, to have 3 expensive ships deal as much damage as 6 cheaper ships.

But what do you mean by “Isnt a choice of gameplay style”? How is ganking not a choice of gameplay style? How havent most of the more prominent gankers, actively gank so much, that their ganking toons have become their main? What about the mains who started ganking? Remember, CCP forbids the cycling of toons and alts in order to avoid the security penalties, and most of these gankers have been mainstay gankers for years now.

Most people gank on alts. Just because some people choose to gank on mains (or claim to) doesn't change that. Or are you seriously trying to claim that most people gank on their mains?

It's terrible gameplay design regardless. It's why jump freighters were introduced. Escorting isn't gameplay, it's boring. I understand that you must argue every possible point, but surely you can;t be seriously suggesting that following a freighter is entertaining enough to be a role in a game.

And yes, people have alts. But gameplay should be designed around the idea that each character is a separate player, otherwise you end up with terribly designed mechanics.

I don;t know, this isn't an F&I thread. I'm simply stating that the current status quo is boring and needs to be looked at.

There's a different though. These mechanics might be boring to some, but they actually require you to interact with your client. Watching a freighter jump doesn't. You must know the difference. I can't honestly believe you are unable to tell the difference between ratting and watching a freighter slowly jumping.

So you're saying because some people watch movies while AFK hauling, that the game should be designed with dumb and empty mechanics? Stop being ridiculous.

Because it has no variance and no consequence. You grab you gank ships, you know exactly how much time you'll have on the clock in the system, the DPS of your fleet, the cap tank of your target. Nobody can really combat you, that's why you guys ridicule white knights, because it's pointless to attempt to stop a disposable character in disposable ships. Even Black Pedro, one of your own has suggested that concord times should be randomised slightly so it requires some actual thought. Oh, as for recycling alts, you can continue to gank on -10, and when you are done it costs less than 400m to undo your sec status hit. So what security penalties?

Whose fault is that? I'll give you a hint, it's not CODE's fault. It's combined, the fault lies with CCP for making CONCORD so binary (if they could be tanked it would open up tons of interesting gameplay), and of all the people who cry about it doing exactly nothing to stop the gankers.

You even repeat the lie that nothing can be done about ganking lower in your post. And it's an oft repeated lie by people who are peddling a culture of victimhood. They wrap themselves in their victims status like teenage girls on tumblr.

You want to know why there are no successful anti ganking groups? Because to be successful at that would require you to be a real player and not some wanna be tumblrina. And as it turns out the real players eventually get sick of the toxic bullshit and join the side that actually wants to play the game. See Gorila for a recent example.



CCP itself has openly and publicly disagreed with everything you just said.

When did I ever say it was codes fault? Why don't you actually read the posts and you'll see me stating that the mechanics need to be balanced and fleshed out into real playable mechanics.

At no point did I say nothing can be done about ganking.

Because nobody cares about their alts getting killed, and to stop a ganker takes far far FAR more effort than a ganker needs to put in, which is white knights are ridiculed at length by people like yourself, who have no problem telling them how fruitless their efforts are.

And yes, people eventually get bored of putting effort into getting nowhere and they join the ganking side - the easy way.

No, Falcon has. When the rest of CCP say that, then we'll know. They are already looking at making highsec easier because their situation with new player retention is so dire. I can't imagine that you guys grieifng is far down the list. Not to mention that Erotica 1 already got the boot, something else code were confident wouldn't happen (undoubtedly they'll backtrack on that now).

Even the way you are reacting here. If you weren't worried about changes coming in the long term, you'd not need to argue so hard about it.

I don't need to flail. I'll just assume you want it to be true because ~reasons~. I gank with my main, except on the rare occasion where I use my dedicated alt, which has a bio indicating exactly who owns the character.

As for common knowledge, I remember an *) by the name of Teg made a similar proclamation some time back and then came to C&P seeking some of those fact thingies. Turned out that a lot of people gank with their main.



*) *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Another obvious lie. Observe.



At least try to keep track of the contradictory nonsense you spew on this thread. On this very page, even.



Also, untrue. If anything they're finally working towards giving highsec the nerfs it deserves, and has for a decade. They've been trying to push people into other areas of the game for a while now, especially with the industry changes. It wouldn't surprise me if they went after Incursions in the near future.

And as for new player retention. The numbers they provided us are pretty damning. Of PvE playstyles, that is. I mean, CCP itself has told us that a PvE centric playstyle, people who just level their Raven as it were, will eventually quit from boredom at a far greater rate than any other group.

Meanwhile groups like RvB and Brave Newbies, who put people into conflict early and often, have a far better retention rate than the people trying to pretend like EVE Online is a single player game. I mean heck, CCP has handed me the only weapon I'll ever need to condemn highsec. All playstyles are not equal, and PvE centric highsec playstyles are literally hurting the game.