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[Proposal] NPC corp tax gradually increases over time
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hired goon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-12-18 19:51:11 UTC
A simple idea to get people more involved in Eve.

At the moment I cannot fathom why someone would remain in an NPC corp for longer than a year, except to "evade" wardecs, and therefore exploit game mechanics and play counter to the "spirit" of Eve.

This idea is an extension of CCP's decision for an automatic 10% tax in all NPC corporations. Tax would, after perhaps a month, begin to increase at a rate of maybe 2% per week (just a figure I randomly came up with, there may be better ones).

Players would not be able to "reset" the tax by leaving and re-joining an NPC corp, as their previous tax would be remembered and continued from. Or if that's too harsh, maybe the amount of tax would slowly diminish as long as someone is outside the NPC corp, allowing them to spend some time outside before returning to less tax (that would then begin increasing again)

Maybe there could be a skill to reduce the rate of tax increase, not sure, just musing.

This idea will encourage players who are essentially playing Eve as a single player grind to explore the pleasures of playing a multiplayer game in a manner that is also multiplayer.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-12-18 20:02:52 UTC
You can't force people to play the way YOU want them too. People will either play the way they want to or they'll quit and play another game.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-12-18 20:07:20 UTC
hired goon wrote:
This idea will encourage players who are essentially playing Eve as a single player grind to explore the pleasures of playing a multiplayer game in a manner that is also multiplayer.


You have a strange idea of what 'encouraging' means.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-12-18 20:08:24 UTC
Just remove NPC corps and let dudes get individually wardec'd.
Goose99
#5 - 2011-12-18 20:09:59 UTC
I have a better idea. CCP should just give you free kms...Cool

Oh wait, why is this a good thing again?Lol
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-12-18 20:19:57 UTC
hired goon wrote:
A simple idea to force people to become more involved in Eve the way I think they should.


Fixt.

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-18 21:59:06 UTC
Yes because eve online is hired goon online.

RollRollRollRoll

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2011-12-18 22:25:13 UTC
I mentioned this as an idea a LOOOOONG time ago. Supported.

How did you Veterans start?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-12-19 00:57:40 UTC
hired goon wrote:
A simple idea to get people more involved in Eve.

At the moment I cannot fathom why someone would remain in an NPC corp for longer than a year, except to "evade" wardecs, and therefore exploit game mechanics and play counter to the "spirit" of Eve.

This idea is an extension of CCP's decision for an automatic 10% tax in all NPC corporations. Tax would, after perhaps a month, begin to increase at a rate of maybe 2% per week (just a figure I randomly came up with, there may be better ones).

Players would not be able to "reset" the tax by leaving and re-joining an NPC corp, as their previous tax would be remembered and continued from. Or if that's too harsh, maybe the amount of tax would slowly diminish as long as someone is outside the NPC corp, allowing them to spend some time outside before returning to less tax (that would then begin increasing again)

Maybe there could be a skill to reduce the rate of tax increase, not sure, just musing.

This idea will encourage players who are essentially playing Eve as a single player grind to explore the pleasures of playing a multiplayer game in a manner that is also multiplayer.

I'm assuming you mean "in my opinion". Your proposal is based on the idea that "all people in NPC corps aren't also in other corps". Well, maybe that toon isn't, but my hi-sec toons support me (when I need it) - and I haven't lived in hi-sec since Nov 2008.

I like encouraging people to explore different aspects of the game with carrots - I guess some people (OP) only understand the stick...Roll



Edit to add: Not supported

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
hired goon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-12-19 02:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: hired goon
As in life, I believe in a mixture of carrot and stick. So far we have seen only carrot, as those affected by any stick threaten to unsubscribe (which never happens). I understand how you may all view this as being simply my opinion, as you will all be affected by it, though I believe it will objectively increase the "quality" of the game for everyone.

To expand on this, it is necessary to define "quality". Each player feels that different game aspects offer different levels of enjoyment, so will measure quality in different ways. However for the purposes of this idea I will define quality as "fun". Fun is an enjoyment of playing the game, and taking part in it's various offerings and interactions - the constantly changing variety and fresh challenges.

I contest that the actions of those who never leave NPC corps is not fun, as their range of activities is limited, and generally will always be closer to a mundane "grind" that simply earns money as fast as possible. This is closer to an addiction or chore than "fun" in the true sense, therefore is of a lower quality of game play. Someone must take responsibility for the people "stuck" in this manner, and if no amount of carrot will remedy the situation, it is my belief that a tiny stick should be employed.

I also believe this will not cause a mass unsubscribing, as the introduction of mandatory 10% NPC corp tax did not. It would also be arguable therefore that CCP could employ "salami tactics", such as introducing a similar 10% increase every two years, with minimal protest from the community.

This is not about killmails. It is about a worrying disconnect I feel with this mass of players, who it seems are playing a different game to me, and who I cannot interact with. Their ships may as well be a background animation, flowing through hisec gates and making the universe appear more alive.

I myself have a high sec alt, and wouldn't mind this change. In reality it does nothing to impede game play; players may simply join a player corp to avoid the tax.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#11 - 2011-12-19 03:29:30 UTC
hired goon wrote:
I understand how you may all view this as being simply my opinion


There's a reason for that, it is just your opinion.

The point remains that forcing people to do stuff is a bad idea. /thread
Goose99
#12 - 2011-12-19 03:40:49 UTC
hired goon wrote:

This is not about killmails. It is about a worrying disconnect I feel with this mass of players, who it seems are playing a different game to me, and who I cannot interact with. Their ships may as well be a background animation, flowing through hisec gates and making the universe appear more alive.


Aww, are you lonely? Maybe you should send them isk. Then you will have friends.Big smile

Btw, I now crown you the boss of what Eve is all about, and how everyone else should play their internet spaceship game.Cool
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-12-19 04:44:18 UTC
You believe?

You Contest?

You think?

You____?

Funny.

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hired goon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-12-19 12:51:25 UTC
Lot of hostility and cynicism here. I am starting to understand now what hulkageddon is about... the perpetrators probably tried to reach out but have given up.

You all react as though I am asking for all of empire space to become nullsec. That would be ridiculous. All I am saying is, there should be a balance of risk/reward. There should be a greater cost for what is essentially invincibility.

It feels like what I am proposing is the stick, because the only way this can be adusted is in that direction. After CCP made it possible to grind cash from an NPC corp until the top 1b+ ships can be afforded, there is no "better" or more expensive ships that can be accessed only in player corp activities/ lowsec/ nullsec/ hisec. So if we are to rebalance risk & reward, our only two options are, the "carrot" which is providing an entire new line of super-expensive and powerful "end-game" ships (more tech 3 maybe?) which is only accessible by taking on more risk - or the "stick" which makes existing ships harder to access by "the invincible".

One is the carrot as it provides new stuff, the other is the stick as it "removes" stuff.

My concern is for those in NPC corps who have ground to the absolute end game with nowhere to go. In my view (one shared by CCP, in fact, if you read the devblog announcing 10% NPC corp tax) this grind should be the beginning of one's Eve experience, not the end. There is such a wonderful game world to experience, and many of you are essentially playing X3: Beyond the Frontier.
Goose99
#15 - 2011-12-19 14:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
hired goon wrote:
Lot of hostility and cynicism here. I am starting to understand now what hulkageddon is about... the perpetrators probably tried to reach out but have given up.

You all react as though I am asking for all of empire space to become nullsec. That would be ridiculous. All I am saying is, there should be a balance of risk/reward. There should be a greater cost for what is essentially invincibility.

It feels like what I am proposing is the stick, because the only way this can be adusted is in that direction. After CCP made it possible to grind cash from an NPC corp until the top 1b+ ships can be afforded, there is no "better" or more expensive ships that can be accessed only in player corp activities/ lowsec/ nullsec/ hisec. So if we are to rebalance risk & reward, our only two options are, the "carrot" which is providing an entire new line of super-expensive and powerful "end-game" ships (more tech 3 maybe?) which is only accessible by taking on more risk - or the "stick" which makes existing ships harder to access by "the invincible".

One is the carrot as it provides new stuff, the other is the stick as it "removes" stuff.

My concern is for those in NPC corps who have ground to the absolute end game with nowhere to go. In my view (one shared by CCP, in fact, if you read the devblog announcing 10% NPC corp tax) this grind should be the beginning of one's Eve experience, not the end. There is such a wonderful game world to experience, and many of you are essentially playing X3: Beyond the Frontier.


Ganking a hulk in a catalyst has risk?Cool

Btw, where do minerals and mods come from? Where do you get your ships from? And they're not "interacting" with you? Back in the days, you had to mine your own minerals and build your own ships. Good times.Lol
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-12-19 15:20:11 UTC
Goose99 wrote:


Ganking a hulk in a catalyst has risk?Cool

Btw, where do minerals and mods come from? Where do you get your ships from? And they're not "interacting" with you? Back in the days, you had to mine your own minerals and build your own ships. Good times.Lol



You should be asking what the #### does hulkageddon have to do with being in an NPC Corporation? I suspect he's getting desperate now.

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#17 - 2011-12-19 15:24:05 UTC
I laid something like this out about a week ago in another thread. I definitely approve of driving people out of hiding in NPC corps.

Neutrals are probably THE biggest contributors to the highsec isk fountain. If we could make it unprofitable to operate bots and long-term grinding alts in NPC corps, we at least would be moving them into corps where they could be war targets.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-12-19 15:26:11 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I laid something like this out about a week ago in another thread. I definitely approve of driving people out of hiding in NPC corps.

Neutrals are probably THE biggest contributors to the highsec isk fountain. If we could make it unprofitable to operate bots and long-term grinding alts in NPC corps, we at least would be moving them into corps where they could be war targets.


Not everyone is a bot floppie....until you get past that bit...no one will win this fight.

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#19 - 2011-12-19 15:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Drake Draconis wrote:
Not everyone is a bot floppie....until you get past that bit...no one will win this fight.


Read again. The issue isn't JUST bots, it's that anyone can operate an NPC corp alt for money-making and be virtually immune to attempts to reduce their cash flow. It lets them run missions in utter safety, then send that cash to their main character to be spent doing whatever it is you're trying to keep them from doing.

I briefly considered the idea of simply making it cost-prohibitive to transfer money from an NPC character to another, but that's easily circumvented. So the only real solution is reducing their ability to MAKE money while in NPC corps.

Also, here's where I suggested this, with a lot fewer words:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=523302#post523302

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#20 - 2011-12-19 16:07:35 UTC
Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:

A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.

Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.
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