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De-Minmatarization: First Tower Constructed and Operational

Author
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#121 - 2015-01-05 22:31:22 UTC
I find it amusing that one would consider allowing pilots personal freedom to have beliefs and thoughts to be "inconsistent". Honestly, I follow the orders of my commander, and that should be consistent enough for anyone.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#122 - 2015-01-05 22:45:28 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
You'll have to forgive us for doubting the word of an Angel entity flying with Sansha in a merc corp flying for the Amarrians with an outspoken grudge against the Republic, especially when rejecting multiple offers of humanitarian aid that would have achieved exactly the same goal.


Do you ever vet what you say? Yes, Kalaratiri is a former Angel, yes some of the pilots she flies with have Sansha sympathies and yes, our corporation has a contract with the 24th IC.

An outspoken grudge against the Republic? Pyre is, at heart, a Kaalakiotaa backed corporation. It is based in the State which the Republic is AT WAR WITH.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jennifer Starfall
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#123 - 2015-01-05 22:51:29 UTC
Listen to yourselves!

Not just lives, but by some considerations souls, were at stake, and you could not get past your petty bickering! Instead of saving those poor souls, you endangered them.

I know that I'm hardly one to call any others to task for their behavior. But if we can't see past our own agendas and differences in order to save innocents from the horrors of madmen, what does that say about us?

Samira, I hope that you were able to save them before that monster had her way with them. In either case, you have my deepest and heartfelt thanks for your effort, and please pass them on to those who assisted in the endeavor.

Jennifer Starfall

Fifth Seyllin Conference

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#124 - 2015-01-05 22:54:48 UTC
The Tower got reinforced by a PYRE fleet and, earlier, finished by a fleet led by PIE.
You've got to ask them what they found inside the wreckage or whether there were any survivors.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#125 - 2015-01-05 23:00:44 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
You'll have to forgive us for doubting the word of an Angel entity flying with Sansha in a merc corp flying for the Amarrians with an outspoken grudge against the Republic, especially when rejecting multiple offers of humanitarian aid that would have achieved exactly the same goal.


Do you ever vet what you say? Yes, Kalaratiri is a former Angel, yes some of the pilots she flies with have Sansha sympathies and yes, our corporation has a contract with the 24th IC.

An outspoken grudge against the Republic? Pyre is, at heart, a Kaalakiotaa backed corporation. It is based in the State which the Republic is AT WAR WITH.


Read the thread. I was referring to the Angel who is publicly outspoken about having a grudge with the Republic.
Jennifer Starfall
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#126 - 2015-01-05 23:01:07 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
The Tower got reinforced by a PYRE fleet and, earlier, finished by a fleet led by PIE.
You've got to ask them what they found inside the wreckage or whether there were any survivors.


My thanks extend to all of PYRE, especially Evi for the initiative she showed. This is the PYRE that I consider it a point of pride to have served, even for a short time with. I only wish you had been able to rise above and see it through to the end.

Jennifer Starfall

Fifth Seyllin Conference

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2015-01-06 01:43:58 UTC
Better in Imperial hands than in the confinement quarters of that lunatic No-pliers. I scouted the place earlier that day and had given up the notion of actually sieging the tower, considering that I have no support of any size or description, resigning myself to having to interdict as many of his industrials or whatever for months to come.

So, just saying something that hardly any Matari is ever going to say, thank PIE for showing up and making all that unnecessary. Now we can worry about liberating slaves from less malicious hands.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#128 - 2015-01-06 02:57:00 UTC
It is pleasing to hear that Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris coordinated the removal of the structure. As for the destruction of the Ishukone-Raata observer at the hands of PYRE is concerning, but not surprising. A pity.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#129 - 2015-01-06 07:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
John Revenent wrote:
It is pleasing to hear that Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris coordinated the removal of the structure. As for the destruction of the Ishukone-Raata observer at the hands of PYRE is concerning, but not surprising. A pity.

It should be hard to be surprised at something you were specifically warned would be the inevitable conclusion of your own policy. I tried to stop this for a year and, finally, I have failed. I am heartsick at the loss of Ishukone lives.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#130 - 2015-01-06 07:32:36 UTC
My condolences for the loss of your new tower, Mr Nauplius.

Doesn't sound like you had much stront, sir. Better luck next time.

Towers are often a labor of love. I've lost towers in the past, I blame Shelby, but they've always risen again. Once all these vultures stop bickering and fighting over your spoils I'm sure you'll rise again too.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#131 - 2015-01-06 08:06:07 UTC
Ms. Dusette, you must not realize that this is Nauplius' third attempt, all of which were low on stront or had no stront to begin with, and little to no defenses present around the tower.

So yes, by all means, encourage him to try again.

-Eran
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2015-01-06 08:07:33 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Ms. Dusette, you must not realize that this is Nauplius' third attempt, all of which were low on stront or had no stront to begin with, and little to no defenses present around the tower.

So yes, by all means, encourage him to try again.

-Eran


So that bored privateer organizations, mercenaries and loyalists can kick it down over and over and over at the expense of who knows how many unlawfully-confined individuals?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#133 - 2015-01-06 08:33:52 UTC
Sarcasm isn't so easily conveyed.

-Eran
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#134 - 2015-01-06 08:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: John Revenent
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
It should be hard to be surprised at something you were specifically warned would be the inevitable conclusion of your own policy. I tried to stop this for a year and, finally, I have failed. I am heartsick at the loss of Ishukone lives.


It was inevitable Tuulinen-haan, yes. I would not tarnish my honor, nor integrity by setting our very steep differences aside in order for us to have a working relationship.. While we have been tip-toeing around this for the past year, Ishukone-Raata was never the aggressor. I'd advise you to pin the blame elsewhere.

You failed yourself, and your ancestors the moment you threw yourself in with that lot of exiles and criminals. We shall see how long your honor lasts with the company you keep Tuulinen-haan, after all a foundation is only as solid as the land its settled.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#135 - 2015-01-06 09:17:48 UTC
Have you tried your hand at comedy? If not, you most certainly should.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2015-01-06 09:39:44 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Sarcasm isn't so easily conveyed.

-Eran


We are communicating in text.

Okay, let's remedy that. Next time we try to convey sarcasm, we should end the sentence with this punctuation mark: (!)

Or we can use italics.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#137 - 2015-01-06 09:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
ValentinaDLM wrote:
I find it amusing that one would consider allowing pilots personal freedom to have beliefs and thoughts to be "inconsistent". Honestly, I follow the orders of my commander, and that should be consistent enough for anyone.


It is only my opinion, but I think there is a distinction between tolerating people with differing outlooks, and the inherent conflict of interests in welcoming people who's self-confessed loyalties are directly in opposition to your own self-confessed loyalties. With no disrespect intended, it shouldn't come across as so bizzare that it sort of calls both into question for many people.

The State is at war with Nation just as much as it is with the Federation, and strongly opposes the activities of all of the "pirate factions". By working with self-confessed members and supporters of those factions, Pyre-Falcon is inherently going against the party line somewhat, because it's allowing them to make a legitimate profit off a State organization, even as their "superiors" make a very illegitimate profit at it's expense elsewhere.

In other words, it's not a question of following orders, so much as the higher level meta-issue of the left hand stabbing at the right. I do not intend to pass judgement; I'm just saying what's probably driving peoples opinions.

(Of course, Pyre-Falcon has countered this arguement in the past by saying that they can't presently be loyalists of those factions by definition, because they're fighting for it at the moment, and not them - Essentially removing the individuals from their respective contexts. This is an arguement that works at surface level, but ignores the long term, and if taken to it's logical conclusion can lead to some rather absurd summations, such as the corporation itself being purely loyal to the Amarr Empire rather than the State.)
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#138 - 2015-01-06 10:03:15 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Ms. Dusette, you must not realize that this is Nauplius' third attempt, all of which were low on stront or had no stront to begin with, and little to no defenses present around the tower.

So yes, by all means, encourage him to try again.

-Eran

I encourage everyone to build their own tower, create their own home for themselves.

Preferably in Anoikis.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Vincent Pryce
Damnation Angels
Watch This
#139 - 2015-01-06 14:56:11 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
It should be hard to be surprised at something you were specifically warned would be the inevitable conclusion of your own policy. I tried to stop this for a year and, finally, I have failed. I am heartsick at the loss of Ishukone lives.


It was inevitable Tuulinen-haan, yes. I would not tarnish my honor, nor integrity by setting our very steep differences aside in order for us to have a working relationship.. While we have been tip-toeing around this for the past year, Ishukone-Raata was never the aggressor. I'd advise you to pin the blame elsewhere.

You failed yourself, and your ancestors the moment you threw yourself in with that lot of exiles and criminals. We shall see how long your honor lasts with the company you keep Tuulinen-haan, after all a foundation is only as solid as the land its settled.


It was your organization that first informed Pyre Falcon Defence and Security of negative standings. We reciprocated in kind. Unlike some other capsuleer organizations, we act upon our words. You were warned you were set negative to us. Yet you still venture into our hunting grounds. It is foolish for you to expect mercy where you know there is none.

Do not try to tarnish the reputation or honor of Tuulinen-kirjuun. These are the result of events your diplomats set in motion, now deal with the consequences of your actions.

Vincent Pryce
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Diplomat

"From your Curse we made Heaven for ourselves."

Domination Seraphim

Cartel approved, Heaven blessed

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#140 - 2015-01-06 15:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
I find it amusing that one would consider allowing pilots personal freedom to have beliefs and thoughts to be "inconsistent". Honestly, I follow the orders of my commander, and that should be consistent enough for anyone.


It is only my opinion, but I think there is a distinction between tolerating people with differing outlooks, and the inherent conflict of interests in welcoming people who's self-confessed loyalties are directly in opposition to your own self-confessed loyalties. With no disrespect intended, it shouldn't come across as so bizzare that it sort of calls both into question for many people.

The State is at war with Nation just as much as it is with the Federation, and strongly opposes the activities of all of the "pirate factions". By working with self-confessed members and supporters of those factions, Pyre-Falcon is inherently going against the party line somewhat, because it's allowing them to make a legitimate profit off a State organization, even as their "superiors" make a very illegitimate profit at it's expense elsewhere.

In other words, it's not a question of following orders, so much as the higher level meta-issue of the left hand stabbing at the right. I do not intend to pass judgement; I'm just saying what's probably driving peoples opinions.

(Of course, Pyre-Falcon has countered this arguement in the past by saying that they can't presently be loyalists of those factions by definition, because they're fighting for it at the moment, and not them - Essentially removing the individuals from their respective contexts. This is an arguement that works at surface level, but ignores the long term, and if taken to it's logical conclusion can lead to some rather absurd summations, such as the corporation itself being purely loyal to the Amarr Empire rather than the State.)


While they're flying with us they are required to shoot a tightly defined subset of the people they would normally be shooting and are working in concert with organisations that have goals aligned with, instead of directly opposed to, two of the four Empires. This is the only part of it that actually does makes sense to me - we have taken people who would normally be a blight upon the stars of New Eden and made them operate as a force for good in their professional lives - no matter what they believe in their heads or get up to in their private lives. The concrete benefits are immediate and provable through the use of simple metrics.

If you want to get into ideological and metaphysical discussions then I freely admit that they are still Angels, Sansha, Freebooters or whatever else they were before they left and they still will be on their departure. Many of them are thoroughly vile in their personal habits, vices and opinions. Nobody is saying that Vincent Pryce is no longer an Angel Loyalist - but he isn't flying for the Angels while he's with us. He is obeying our Rules of Engagement and provided your life choices haven't put you in a position to be engaged by us, you are now demonstrably safer.

People have laughably discussed what might need to be done to bring the former-TSF pilots back into the fold of polite and civilised society. I am not in the business of 'pie in the sky' and will settle for the fact that we originally achieved stopping TSF from processing State pilots into drones, proceeded through to them only processing Pirate crews and have now achieved them not taking POWs at all. Gwen, you are quite welcome to visit our current FOB and try and do better in a sit-down meeting with your chosen Sansha aligned pilot.

I would have thought that the actions of people like Nauplius would have made some sort of an impression. You can't interdict the actions of Capsuleers using the behavioral models we have inherited from our time as baseliners. Capsuleers are mercurial and, once they willingly surrender their need to be part of our society, largely unchained by our laws and morality.

Not that I have a great deal of faith in the so-called integrity and honour of other capsuleers. They are far too often used as excuses, in my opinion, for people far too willing to commit evil acts under the cover of some surface-ideology. I will not be party to that kind of failure of leadership or personal ethics. My honour will not be fed at the expense of feeding a starving child or healing a sick person or employing the dispossessed. It neither excuses nor acts in a form of moral alchemy to purify the actions of the cruel or cowardly.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.