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Neutralizer Mechanics against Smaller Ships

Author
Kitsu Shadow
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#1 - 2011-12-18 07:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitsu Shadow
I've recently been finding it incredibly annoying when fighting in AF gangs vs Cruisers, BCs, and BSs that have two medium nuets fitted and getting capped out in one nuet cycle. Neutralizers are overpowered when used against a ship that's a hull class beneath the size of the nuet. One Cycle from two medium nuets can cap out an AF. Neuts or frigates need a rebalance.

An example would be that if a medium nuet was applied against a frigate hull the nuet would only remove the same cap amount as a small nuet. This would make it possible for frigate hulls to stand a much better chance when going against larger hulls but not discourage the use of medium nuets.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-12-18 07:35:29 UTC
It's called target selection, ships that commonly fit nuets in there utility high slots do so to cap out smaller ships.

Frigates while fun are exremely suseptable to a few things and just incase you didn't know I'll outline a few of them;

-Damage: Frigates have a low EHP and therefore get popped very easily when alot of damage is inflicted on them.
-Nuets: This type of EWAR is designed to shut down ships and it is annoying but a ship fitted with a cap injector will have less of a hard time dealing with being capped out.
-ECM: Due to the low sensor strenght of Frigates if ECM is present and targeting you, then you are most likely permajammed and need to GTFO.
-Smartbombs: Most Frigates need to be very close to there target to engage properly so the automatic hit of the smartbomb might be to much for the frigate to handle.
-Light Scout Drones: Alot of ships can fit these and they can tear the average Frigate apart in seconds, a few frigates can outrun the drones.
-ETC...

Frigates are fragile but fun, thats the allure to them IMHO. Either fit a cap booster or fly a different ship. Nothing is wrong with the current Nuet mechanics.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Kitsu Shadow
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#3 - 2011-12-18 07:42:50 UTC
I disagree, frigates are already limited when dealing with available mid slots. All the tank of an AF comes from its speed tank. A web plus nuets = GG. Webs are already a decent counter for frigates. Neuts take away w/e advantage was gained by using a smaller ship. Two medium neuts can basically counter an entire hull type, or vice versa large neuts vs cruisers. Although most cruisers have the spare mid to cap boost from, the power grid can be limited for many cruisers. Regardless capboosters shouldnt become a mainstay item on a frigate when most of them time the three mids are just enough for a web, +2 point, and an AB.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-12-18 08:15:41 UTC
Adapt or die, either adapt your fittings and tactics to the people that you are engaging, or die. You could possibly not engage then in that ship, Frigates have this amazing ability to choose who they engage for the most part. Fly smarter and don't ask to fix something that isn't broken.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Kitsu Shadow
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#5 - 2011-12-18 08:41:54 UTC
So u dont think a single module being able to counter an entire hull class isnt broken!!!
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2011-12-18 08:45:58 UTC
Equipping a small nosferatu usually counters neuts of larger sizes.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-12-18 08:54:17 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Equipping a small nosferatu usually counters neuts of larger sizes.


This, fitting a single NOS can enable most frigs to perma run all mods (if ab fit at least) when neuted to hell, you just need to spam your modules when cap from nos comes in.
Kitsu Shadow
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#8 - 2011-12-18 08:54:37 UTC
two staggered medium neuts beats nos, unless u fit two nos which seriously gimps ur fit
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2011-12-18 09:43:03 UTC
A small Nos has a cycle time of 3 seconds. Medium Neut has a cycle time of 12.

Even properly staggered (which rarely happens in the ♪ "heat of the moment" ♫♪) that means you have a Neut hitting you every 6 seconds... which still allows the Nos to cycle 2 times.

You definitely won't be running your armor/shield rep... but you can definitely run your point, web, and maybe your AB or guns.
Kitsu Shadow
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#10 - 2011-12-18 10:16:01 UTC
Nos requires activation energy, if ur capped out ur nos may not effectively run also its not the nos cycle time but the AB cycle time which is important, and since the cycle times for the nuets and the AB are fairly close the nos doesnt have enough time between a nuet cycle and the AB cycle to regen enough to cap run the AB
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-12-18 19:55:10 UTC
So let's get this straight here: you were in a frigate which wasn't optimized to take on bigger ships, took on a bigger ship, and died?
I'm not seeing the problem here.

Quote:
Webs are already a decent counter for frigates.

No they aren't. Not by a longshot.
Goose99
#12 - 2011-12-18 20:13:12 UTC
Neut should have tracking.Cool
Kitsu Shadow
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#13 - 2011-12-18 20:14:35 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
So let's get this straight here: you were in a frigate which wasn't optimized to take on bigger ships, took on a bigger ship, and died?
I'm not seeing the problem here.

Quote:
Webs are already a decent counter for frigates.

No they aren't. Not by a longshot.


so i have to run three times nos to go against a cruiser now?
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-12-18 20:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
1 nos is sufficient vs most ships, a cap booster is a better option, both of those together will render you all but invulnerable to energy neuts.

Hint to the clueless newbie: rather than just expecting your "lolimso1337pwnmobile" to work against every single thing you throw it at, try considering the counters to the problems you're facing.

Simple fact: if you want to fight bigger ships in a frigate and survive - you're gonna have to make some compromises with your fit.
Goose99
#15 - 2011-12-18 20:23:38 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
1 nos is sufficient vs most ships, a cap booster is a better option, both of those together will render you all but invulnerable to energy neuts.

Hint to the clueless newbie: rather than just expecting your "lolimso1337pwnmobile" to work against every single thing you throw it at, try considering the counters to the problems you're facing.

Simple fact: if you want to fight bigger ships in a frigate and survive - you're gonna have to make some compromises with your fit.


Every cane has 2 neuts. 1 nos is not enough. Fitting cap booster is viable in AFs, which suck. You need to undock and get neuted.Lol

Oh, and btw, neuts should have tracking.Cool
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-12-18 20:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
Every cane has 2 neuts.

Hence "most." I would've thought even a simpleton could understand that.
Edit: Besides, the hurricane is a ridiculously powerful ship all-round. Drakes and Harbingers on the other hand will usually have a small, or at best a single medium. The Myrmidon is a wildcard because you can fit that about 20 different ways but usually they mount guns.
Brutix - no neuts
Cyclone - usually has them
Ferox - 1, at best
Prophecy - is a lolship.
Tier 3s - no neuts

So yeah, that's under a third of the BC lineup that can mount a number of neuts that's actually a threat.

Quote:
Fitting cap booster is viable in AFs, which suck.

The Retribution sucks. The other AFs are just fine if you have a clue.

But back to the point: the OP is a whining tool who can't figure out how to work around a simple problem and thus wants it nerfed.
Goose99
#17 - 2011-12-18 20:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
Every cane has 2 neuts.

Hence "most." I would've thought even a simpleton could understand that.
Edit: Besides, the hurricane is a ridiculously powerful ship all-round. Drakes and Harbingers on the other hand will usually have a small, or at best a single medium. The Myrmidon is a wildcard because you can fit that about 20 different ways but usually they mount guns.
Brutix - no neuts
Cyclone - usually has them
Ferox - 1, at best
Prophecy - is a lolship.
Tier 3s - no neuts

So yeah, that's under a third of the BC lineup that can mount a number of neuts that's actually a threat.

Quote:
Fitting cap booster is viable in AFs, which suck.

The Retribution sucks. The other AFs are just fine if you have a clue.

But back to the point: the OP is a whining tool who can't figure out how to work around a simple problem and thus wants it nerfed.


OP simply pointed out one of the reasons why, according to CCP stats, more canes are used in pvp than Brutix, Myrm, Ferox, Prophecy, and all AFs combined. And if you think AFs are fine, you need to undock in one and get a clue.Roll
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-12-18 20:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
They need their buff, but unusable? Hardly.

But this isn't an AF thread, it's a whiner who wants a pointless nerf.
I'm also pretty sure Drakes were above canes...
Kitsu Shadow
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#19 - 2011-12-18 21:25:14 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
They need their buff, but unusable? Hardly.

But this isn't an AF thread, it's a whiner who wants a pointless nerf.
I'm also pretty sure Drakes were above canes...


lol

guy when ur limited in med slots there isnt room for capboosters, that makes all the AFs with two mids less vaible than any af with three mids, not to mention the AFs with two mids are usually the ones with enough dps to actually go after larger targets. Not saying that nuets should b nerfed their mechanics against lowers hull classes needs a looking over.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-12-18 22:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
Not saying that nuets should b nerfed their mechanics against lowers hull classes needs a looking over.


No, they don't. Neuts are fine. And there's plenty of room for a cap booster on all but the Wolf and Enyo.
(And let's face it, those two are mainly gang ships anyway, so there's less chance of them in particular being neuted)

Really though, if you think your AF gang should be able to take on an equally numbered BC gang and win - you're either delusional or an idiot.
(I'm leaning towards the latter, personally)
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