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Rationalising the skill training & implants sytem

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#261 - 2014-12-24 20:54:27 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


Actually this stovepipes clones in the best case or the entire character in the worst case to be average ate everything or hyper specialized in one task and you'd need a bunch of alts for various tasks. Right now you can choose pure learning, cambat and learning, pure combat or no implants at all. You can remap attributes to change focus once if needed too. This is all optional with greater or lesser degrees of risk and usefulness. This is exactly the way it should be in my view.



Not really... You would still retain skill implants, and at base attribute mapping, you would be unaffected by the change, other than no longer requiring attribute implants to train faster.
The only people that would be affected are those using slave implants, but those could be balanced into this new system.

This would actually give more versatility to players, by allowing them to pay to swap specialization if they were willling to pay, as well as allowing advanced specialization.

As far as stovepipe clones, that's something players do on their own in most cases.
They have a clone that's bare for pvp, industry players will have one with industry affecting implants, miners have a mining clone, missile boat clones, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc....

This would allow for quite a bit more optionality, though at a cost.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#262 - 2014-12-24 21:21:16 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


Actually this stovepipes clones in the best case or the entire character in the worst case to be average ate everything or hyper specialized in one task and you'd need a bunch of alts for various tasks. Right now you can choose pure learning, cambat and learning, pure combat or no implants at all. You can remap attributes to change focus once if needed too. This is all optional with greater or lesser degrees of risk and usefulness. This is exactly the way it should be in my view.



Not really... You would still retain skill implants, and at base attribute mapping, you would be unaffected by the change, other than no longer requiring attribute implants to train faster.
The only people that would be affected are those using slave implants, but those could be balanced into this new system.

This would actually give more versatility to players, by allowing them to pay to swap specialization if they were willling to pay, as well as allowing advanced specialization.

As far as stovepipe clones, that's something players do on their own in most cases.
They have a clone that's bare for pvp, industry players will have one with industry affecting implants, miners have a mining clone, missile boat clones, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc....

This would allow for quite a bit more optionality, though at a cost.


'At a cost' immediately falls fouls of the op's famous law...currently learning implants are balanced.new players are learning low multiplier skills where the difference between +2s and +5s is limited...older players who can afford +5s are typically learning very long training skills so the value of +5s is worth the investment.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#263 - 2014-12-24 21:34:20 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


'At a cost' immediately falls fouls of the op's famous law...currently learning implants are balanced.new players are learning low multiplier skills where the difference between +2s and +5s is limited...older players who can afford +5s are typically learning very long training skills so the value of +5s is worth the investment.



TBH, training those low level skills as a noob faster was more important to me than speeding up the long skills I train now.

Remember being a noob?

Couldn't put together a fit for crap, turrets didn't hit for crap, tank was weak as hell, and you couldn't even fit t2 modules.
Burning through fitting skills and low level ship and weapon skills is like grinding through levels in any other MMO.

I'm not saying we should buff leveling up speed like other MMOs, but I'm saying that a new guy that can't do anything shouldn't be forced to train those more important and more tedious skills at a slower rate.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#264 - 2014-12-25 00:49:43 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


'At a cost' immediately falls fouls of the op's famous law...currently learning implants are balanced.new players are learning low multiplier skills where the difference between +2s and +5s is limited...older players who can afford +5s are typically learning very long training skills so the value of +5s is worth the investment.



TBH, training those low level skills as a noob faster was more important to me than speeding up the long skills I train now.

Remember being a noob?

Couldn't put together a fit for crap, turrets didn't hit for crap, tank was weak as hell, and you couldn't even fit t2 modules.
Burning through fitting skills and low level ship and weapon skills is like grinding through levels in any other MMO.

I'm not saying we should buff leveling up speed like other MMOs, but I'm saying that a new guy that can't do anything shouldn't be forced to train those more important and more tedious skills at a slower rate.


I have no illusions...i'm still a new player in more areas than not. But as a 3 day old player i was running in lvl 4 missions alongsidea corpmate and doing fine in the free incursus using low meta loot from rats. Lughts shows from 8 BS trying to target a frig are great and i recommend it to any new player...

I never found any training to be frustratingly slow and appreciated the progression in learning implants i acquired on the way.

Merry Christmas to all I've argued with by the way and i look forward to arguing with those I have not so far :)
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#265 - 2014-12-25 01:00:34 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


Merry Christmas to all I've argued with by the way and i look forward to arguing with those I have not so far :)


Although we disagree about this issue, I cannot disagree with your sentiments here: a Merry Christmas to you too!

May Santa Claus bring you a set of +5's (and then drop you in my bubble).

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#266 - 2014-12-25 04:34:11 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


Merry Christmas to all I've argued with by the way and i look forward to arguing with those I have not so far :)


Although we disagree about this issue, I cannot disagree with your sentiments here: a Merry Christmas to you too!

May Santa Claus bring you a set of +5's (and then drop you in my bubble).


Merry Christmas to all..
And may Santa bring me a new gaming laptop cause I just busted the screen on mine....
Seriously.... F'd up......... So pissed off right now........ No Eve for a while I guess.... Son of a ........
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#267 - 2014-12-25 16:33:10 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


Merry Christmas to all I've argued with by the way and i look forward to arguing with those I have not so far :)


Although we disagree about this issue, I cannot disagree with your sentiments here: a Merry Christmas to you too!

May Santa Claus bring you a set of +5's (and then drop you in my bubble).


Merry Christmas to all..
And may Santa bring me a new gaming laptop cause I just busted the screen on mine....
Seriously.... F'd up......... So pissed off right now........ No Eve for a while I guess.... Son of a ........


And Santa just bought me a new one... With my own money....
Funny thing is, the stats on my new laptop are better than my 1 and a half year old laptop, and I pain less...
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#268 - 2014-12-25 16:51:03 UTC
I get gaming laptops because I need high performance to run Oracle databases for my business stuff. It's pure coincedence that they come with twin SLI graphics cards and I absolutely need 32Gb of RAM for the test servers I run up in virtual machines.

Honest.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#269 - 2015-01-05 09:08:53 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#270 - 2015-01-25 10:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Malcanis wrote:


4) Change the current stat boosting implants into +100-+500 SP/hr and put them in slot slot 7, 8 or 9, with wide availability for all three of those slots, with only the highest value implant or booster taking effect.

5) Introduce boosters that give +100-500 SP/hr with, again, availability for all 3 booster slots, and again with only the highest value implant or booster taking effect. (so if you have a +4 learning implant but you take a +500 SP/hr booster, you get 3000 SP/hr for 72 hours, then drop back to 2900 SP/hr after 72 hours when the booster wears off. The Cerebral Enhancer booster will need to be rebalanced accordingly, but I'll leave the details of that for discussion..



Hello micro transactions only from next store. Roll

Also you idea still keeps implants in game but punishing have nots at the cost of have alls even more

Either cap learning to 2700 and drop implants and attributes but not this micro transaction crap.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#271 - 2015-01-25 11:15:09 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


4) Change the current stat boosting implants into +100-+500 SP/hr and put them in slot slot 7, 8 or 9, with wide availability for all three of those slots, with only the highest value implant or booster taking effect.

5) Introduce boosters that give +100-500 SP/hr with, again, availability for all 3 booster slots, and again with only the highest value implant or booster taking effect. (so if you have a +4 learning implant but you take a +500 SP/hr booster, you get 3000 SP/hr for 72 hours, then drop back to 2900 SP/hr after 72 hours when the booster wears off. The Cerebral Enhancer booster will need to be rebalanced accordingly, but I'll leave the details of that for discussion..



Hello micro transactions only from next store. Roll

Also you idea still keeps implants in game but punishing have nots at the cost of have alls even more

Either cap learning to 2700 and drop implants and attributes but not this micro transaction crap.


Who on earth said anything about microtransactions? Boosters are produced in-game.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#272 - 2015-01-25 11:58:55 UTC
Also how is reducing the requirement from a full set of learning implants to a single one or a cheap, disposable booster drug "punishing have nots"

How will "have nots" be worse off in any way?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#273 - 2015-01-25 12:21:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Also how is reducing the requirement from a full set of learning implants to a single one or a cheap, disposable booster drug "punishing have nots"

How will "have nots" be worse off in any way?


There is no requirement for a full set of learning implants. I plug in two +4s after I get podded, costs about 40mil per month or less depending how often I get podded, is extremely simple and care-free, and I don't have to waste game time supplying myself with some ******** short-term boosters.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#274 - 2015-01-25 13:59:59 UTC
I disagree with your founding premise. This game is built on a system of chosen passive learning skills. I'm for more ortions.. more diverse and complex training.. not less.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2015-01-25 14:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
The only change to implants that I'd like to see is that they drop as BPC's rather than complete sets. Then a trade opens up in those, manufacturers can buy and build them from lazy ratters and PI gets a boost at the same time. The only way this would nerf ratter income is if they are too lazy to place buy orders in the hub of their choice and build the things themselves. In that case I would have no sympathy with their income being nerfed.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#276 - 2015-01-25 14:30:39 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Also how is reducing the requirement from a full set of learning implants to a single one or a cheap, disposable booster drug "punishing have nots"

How will "have nots" be worse off in any way?


There is no requirement for a full set of learning implants. I plug in two +4s after I get podded, costs about 40mil per month or less depending how often I get podded, is extremely simple and care-free, and I don't have to waste game time supplying myself with some ******** short-term boosters.


That's why I specifically left the choice between implants, boosters or nothing in my proposal. To give an option that suits every single use case.

So how does that leave "have nots" worse off?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#277 - 2015-01-25 14:33:05 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
I disagree with your founding premise. This game is built on a system of chosen passive learning skills. I'm for more ortions.. more diverse and complex training.. not less.


How odes this proposal change the diversity and complexity of chosen skills?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#278 - 2015-01-25 18:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Malcanis wrote:
Also how is reducing the requirement from a full set of learning implants to a single one or a cheap, disposable booster drug "punishing have nots"

How will "have nots" be worse off in any way?


Simply depending how you distribute the materials you either have a new tech cartel or everyone has start producing their own boosters, either way that idea flies about as far producing your own implants or skill books and for the same reasons.

But mainly accelerated levelling is nr 1 money maker in micro transaction games and for obvious reasons.

Currently you can simply do a few lvl 4's and you have +4 implants from lp store and you don''t have to pay a dime more then anyone else has, system you propose wouldn't be an improvement only worse nor do I like the idea hauling some boosters each week to wh to keep characters trained nor grinding just so I can have accelerated learning.

Better solution would be to get rid of all attribute points and -implants and give us all 2700 sp/hr then invent some other system that is simply the old system in a new package.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#279 - 2015-01-25 18:09:28 UTC
Who's going to pay real money for temporary accelerators when permanent in game implants do the same job?

Did you miss the part where I specified that only the highest agent would act?

And how does your objection

"Simply depending how you distribute the materials you either have a new tech cartel or everyone has start producing their own boosters"

Not equally apply to learning implants right now?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#280 - 2015-01-25 18:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Malcanis wrote:
Who's going to pay real money for temporary accelerators when permanent in game implants do the same job?

Did you miss the part where I specified that only the highest agent would act?

And how does your objection

"Simply depending how you distribute the materials you either have a new tech cartel or everyone has start producing their own boosters"

Not equally apply to learning implants right now?

Do you remember the ship skins? Roll Or RMT, or people who buy anything from the NES to begin with? Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.