These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Gallente Redesign
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Misato Katsuragi
N. E. R. V.
#1 - 2011-12-18 17:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Misato Katsuragi
The sad thing is when most players clicked on this thread, they already knew what I am referring too. Gallente warfare philosophy as it stands, is just not possible with its current ship designs and weapon systems. I started playing eve back in 2003 and always had the understanding that gallente were the up in your face, hard hitting faction. Able to take extremes amount of damage while closing with their targets in preperation to take them out in a few hits. Currently, their ships are too slow, can't take a lot of damage, and their weapons can't reach their targets. In general they are a confused warfare philosophy.

Issues related to Gallente:

Blaster range and damage. (Hybrids in general, draw backs of lasers and projectiles but you can't select damage type!?)Still bad tracking and range, and still medicore damage.

Information Warfare. This is so far out of place I don't even know where to begin. CCP knows its broken but doesn't know how to fix it. I'm going to add the EOS in here as well.

Webs. So the fastest race in eve gets web bonuses, but the second fastest gets warp disruption. Really? Give gallente ships the web bonus and the minmatar ships warp disruption bonuses. Giving web range bonuses to the dedicated blaster ships could fix the problem. Back in the day a thorax standard build always had a web.

Armor. How I just love the repping bonus.... so not only do I have to power my guns but I also have to power my armor tank, that repairs at the end of its cycle and my AB/MWD. Like another thread stated why do gal have to be just armor.

Speed. Not fast enough, and still a lot of mass to move around. Gallente ships have never felt nimble. Its like a jet engine strapped to a tank. You can't corner in those needed high velocity blaster orbits.

I'm sure there some other issues out there, but these are just a few I have seen. Gallente were once an effective race, now they are the bastard child of Eve.

OK EOS fix: Remove drone bay bonus, just stupid to begin with... Lower bandwith to 50, add a 10% drone damage bonus. Ugh, was that so hard. Sorry just had to put that out there.
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
#2 - 2011-12-18 17:54:36 UTC
Good post.

IMHO: if I MUST fight in scram range, and fully commit to kill or be killed, then:
1. We HAVE to have a means to get in that range and/or escape when we can't (fixing speed or damps or both); AND
2. My guns need to have optimals that cover scram range and do so much damage that their dps can be my tank; OR
3. My active rep/sig/agility/speed tank (whichever) needs to be effective enough to give us some staying power.

Or something to that effect. IMHO of course.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#3 - 2011-12-18 18:11:24 UTC
1) Hybrid ammo is getting redone ala projectiles.
2) Laser crystals have a good chance of a redo as well.
3) Barrage vs. Null vs. Scorch is getting looked at.
4) Ways to get Gallante into range much faster are being looked at.
5) Expect many individual ship tweaks.
Goose99
#4 - 2011-12-18 18:13:40 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
1) Hybrid ammo is getting redone ala projectiles.
2) Laser crystals have a good chance of a redo as well.
3) Barrage vs. Null vs. Scorch is getting looked at.
4) Ways to get Gallante into range much faster are being looked at.
5) Expect many individual ship tweaks.


Soon™Cool
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2011-12-18 18:15:32 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
1) Hybrid ammo is getting redone ala projectiles.
2) Laser crystals have a good chance of a redo as well.
3) Barrage vs. Null vs. Scorch is getting looked at.
4) Ways to get Gallante into range much faster are being looked at.
5) Expect many individual ship tweaks.

Link to Dev Post?
vorneus
Hub2
#6 - 2011-12-18 18:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: vorneus
While the OP is generally accurate in terms of problems with Gallente design (damps being ineffective, nerfs to webs and scrams, poor ship speed, cap usage and general subpar performance of active armour tanking, extreme range on rails rendered undesirable by on-grid probing, blaster range, etc.) I think the solutions suggested are too much.

For example, giving web range bonuses to blaster ships would be an extreme and unnecessary change.

I'd like to see Gallente keep the same "in your face, active tank, blasters extreme damage at point blank range" combat philosophy, but things tweaked (and I can't emphasise this enough - small incremental tweaks to game balance, not huge changes that just perpetuate a neverending cycle of buffs and nerfs) to make them more competitive with other races.

For example, some kind of tweaking to do with cap use on active armour tanks or MWD's. This would need to be very cautiously approached as it would impact on other ships. The tweaks might be just on Gallente hulls to avoid this - no idea what would be best - I'm just theorising. Oh, and yes I know the Thorax and Deimos both have an MWD cap penalty bonus, but it's unbelievably feeble and would need to be more akin to the interceptors' cap bonus for warp scrams/disruptors for it to be effective.

Another tweak, as I've mentioned quite a few times now and others are also keen on the idea, to remove the mass penalty from armour rigs affecting only active tanks.

Information warfare links and Gallente CSs are a whole different discussion, although both the Eos and Astarte (Astarte mainly, obviously) would certainly benefit from the above tweaks in terms of combat performance.

Long story short, I think some careful tweaks here and there could bring Gallente ships back up to a more competitive level again with the same combat philosophy - I am very much against a general range buff for blasters that just makes them a pulse laser or an autocannon with a different sound and animation.

-Ed

This one time, I like, totally did some stuff.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2011-12-18 18:54:39 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
1) Hybrid ammo is getting redone ala projectiles.
2) Laser crystals have a good chance of a redo as well.
3) Barrage vs. Null vs. Scorch is getting looked at.
4) Ways to get Gallante into range much faster are being looked at.
5) Expect many individual ship tweaks.

Link to Dev Post?


I'm at work on my iPhone. It's from CCP Tallest in the Hybrid feedback thread for the test server. It's around page 34.
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#8 - 2011-12-18 19:05:17 UTC
Whine thread as per usual. None of the points hit the spot right on. Hence, why it's another whine thread.
Btw! minnie deserves webs more than gallente does due to being the skirmish race... DING! you never thought of that did you? I guess not!!
A slight change to hybrid ammo (range) and hybrid ships (speed) should help actually but minnie ships SHOULD remain the fastest.
Goose99
#9 - 2011-12-18 19:16:21 UTC
Julia Connor wrote:
Whine thread as per usual. None of the points hit the spot right on. Hence, why it's another whine thread.
Btw! minnie deserves webs more than gallente does due to being the skirmish race... DING! you never thought of that did you? I guess not!!
A slight change to hybrid ammo (range) and hybrid ships (speed) should help actually but minnie ships SHOULD remain the fastest.


tl;dr

I, Winmatar, must win.Big smile
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#10 - 2011-12-18 20:38:27 UTC
Alara IonStorm
#11 - 2011-12-18 20:42:46 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
CCP Tallest at bottom of page

Got it.
CCP Tallest wrote:

Here are some of the things relating to hybrid ships that we will be looking further into in the coming weeks/months:

* Further tweaking of individual ships.
* Tech II ammo needs a better look at, especially Null-Scorch-Barrage.
* Active tanking vs passive tanking. And by extension, armor tanking vs shield tanking.
* Small and Medium Webifier drones.
* Give tech I hybrid ammo variations for each range, like projectile ammo. Maybe the same for lasers.
* Something to help blaster ships get into range. There are several good suggestions on how to do this; Webifier range bonus, MWD speed bonus, change the armor rig penalty, increase base speed or even a new type of module. We might do some of them, all of them or something completely different.

Glad CCP is on the same page as me. I look forward to any of these.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#12 - 2011-12-18 20:48:04 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:

3) Barrage vs. Null vs. Scorch is getting looked at.



Let me guess - the way CCP acted during the last years the tweaks will probably look like this:

- Scorch range bonus is removed, the tracking speed multiplier is changed to 0.5, capacitor need will be doubled and base thermal damage will be removed without a replacement.

- A ship that has Null loaded receives an 1% bonus to sensor dampener effectiveness and passive shield recharge rate.

- Barrage falloff modifier will be increased to 3x, the tracking speed multiplier will be changed to 1.25, it receieves additional Thermal and EM damage and firing your guns will recharge your cap.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
vorneus
Hub2
#13 - 2011-12-18 21:37:01 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
.. and firing your guns will recharge your cap.


I lol'ed.

-Ed

This one time, I like, totally did some stuff.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#14 - 2011-12-18 23:43:24 UTC
It's amazing how Gallente can get so gimped and so negatively singled out by CCP and the Eve community, and yet still have many of the best ships in their classes.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Goose99
#15 - 2011-12-19 00:02:33 UTC
Dorian Tormak wrote:
It's amazing how Gallente can get so gimped and so negatively singled out by CCP and the Eve community, and yet still have many of the best ships in their classes.


Which ones? Care to enlighten us?Lol
Misato Katsuragi
N. E. R. V.
#16 - 2011-12-19 00:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Misato Katsuragi
Dorian Tormak wrote:
It's amazing how Gallente can get so gimped and so negatively singled out by CCP and the Eve community, and yet still have many of the best ships in their classes.


Yet out of the top 20 PVP killer ships, 3 are Gallente: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3235

Current issue with blaster ships is that you tend stack armor plates on your ship, which in returns slows the thing down. You'll eventually max in speed, but it takes a long time. And once you get into range, you don't do that much more damage then your AC/ pulse buddies, which have been shooting you this whole. Getting in weapon range is the greatest challenge.

Minmatar have the advantage in that they tend to use shields; shields don't weigh anything, Amarr, they don't need to be fast, their weapons have good enough tracking and range, and Caldari realize that rails don't do enough damage, and can't track anything, so they fit missiles.
Goose99
#17 - 2011-12-19 00:12:53 UTC
Misato Katsuragi wrote:
Dorian Tormak wrote:
It's amazing how Gallente can get so gimped and so negatively singled out by CCP and the Eve community, and yet still have many of the best ships in their classes.


Yet out of the top 20 PVP killer ships, 3 are Gallente: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3235

Current issue with blaster ships is that you tend stack armor plates on your ship, which in returns slows the thing down. You'll eventually max in speed, but it takes a long time. And once you get into range, you don't do that much more damage then your AC/ pulse buddies, which have been shooting you this whole. Getting in weapon range is the greatest challenge.

Minmatar have the advantage in that they tend to use shields; shields don't weigh anything, Amarr, they don't need to be fast, their weapons have good enough tracking and range, and Caldari realize that rails don't do enough damage, and can't track anything, so they fit missiles.


You don't stack armor plates, it's already slow shield gank fit.Lol

Diemost with 2 nanos goes to 2km/s, Vega, same tier hac, with the same 2 nanos goes to 3km/s. With 2 te/tc, Diemost does almost no dps at point range even with null, Vega does 85% dps at point range.

Oh, and lol@Caldari missiles.Roll
Noisrevbus
#18 - 2011-12-19 00:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
CCP Tallest wrote:

Here are some of the things relating to hybrid ships that we will be looking further into in the coming weeks/months:

* Further tweaking of individual ships.
* Tech II ammo needs a better look at, especially Null-Scorch-Barrage.
* Active tanking vs passive tanking. And by extension, armor tanking vs shield tanking.
* Small and Medium Webifier drones.
* Give tech I hybrid ammo variations for each range, like projectile ammo. Maybe the same for lasers.
* Something to help blaster ships get into range. There are several good suggestions on how to do this; Webifier range bonus, MWD speed bonus, change the armor rig penalty, increase base speed or even a new type of module. We might do some of them, all of them or something completely different.


Alot of this is really, really disheartening to see. That they even consider it on a drawing-board level is disturbing.

Small and medium webifier drones? The future in this game is obviously a continuation of sitting still in a blob of BC and just bleeding anything smaller that even consider attempting an engagement. If people belive a shitswarm of EC-300 is a problem now, i wonder what they'll think about a cloud of interceptor-speed webbing drones.

Tanking on a conceptual level is perfectly fine. There may be ships or bonuses that end up out of place, you might need to re-check racial roles and so forth, but as far as the basics go it's downright stupid listening to people who want to make active tanking on-par with buffer in a larger group scenario.

Blaster-boat (note: specificly the way the ships are flown, as opposed to other details) were quite alright, and is now slightly better. Why continue to cater to people who are only content when things are buffed to the point where they go beyond logic, just because they want to puzzle one narrow concept into an even more narrow role for it. It's the same as with the tank, logic is the reason people don't active tank or run point blank in a huge unstable environment. It's difficult finding a sensible way to deal with dumb.

Sorting Hybrid ammo like the projectile changes probably stem from the percieved success of that change, but it show no consideration at all for how much the various Hybrid ranges differ: from blaster to rail, from falloff- to optimal, from no bonus to one bonus to two bonuses to range. Alot of the Hybrid ships are quite dependent upon finding an ammo range that suit their specific reach. Sweeping, uniform changes as was done to projectiles risk doing more harm than good.

The same pretty much go for the rest of this thread tbh. One thing is quite amusing when it comes to Gallente though, the same patch they get some tweaks, the developers decide to introduce a new cost-effective counter to both their ideals P.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#19 - 2011-12-19 00:18:47 UTC
Misato Katsuragi wrote:
Yet out of the top 20 PVP killer ships, 3 are Gallente

Is it any wonder when you hate mongers get together and literally destroy an entire race's reputation over the course of years?

I think that coupled with stuffing Minmatar's balls down your throats might have affected quite a few players' decisions to not fly Gallente.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Alara IonStorm
#20 - 2011-12-19 00:21:01 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Dorian Tormak wrote:
It's amazing how Gallente can get so gimped and so negatively singled out by CCP and the Eve community, and yet still have many of the best ships in their classes.


Which ones? Care to enlighten us?Lol

No.

Dorian Tormak wrote:
stuffing Minmatar's balls down your throat

His head is somewhere else at the moment.
123Next pageLast page