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TP starbase batteries
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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-01-01 09:53:26 UTC
Basically just a low-fitting req tower that puts out a pretty decent-sized sig buff (we can discuss what's acceptable sig bloom for a POS battery vs module), but a VERY long optimal and falloff range. This would be ideal not only for missile batteries, but for defending the starbase against cruiser or smaller sized ships. Again, specifics like sig bloom percentage and fitting can be debated, but a having lower fitting reqs and bigger sig bloom would be ideal, with consideration with the increased power and range of other ewar batteries.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-01-01 21:55:14 UTC
How does 150km optimal +100 optimal sound? That would put it at ranges around where the cruise missile batteries hit out to.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#3 - 2015-01-02 01:42:18 UTC
Missiles aside, the web batteries have such high modifiers they negate the usefulness of target painters with the way the tracking formula works. They also would suffer from the same issue unless fixed where the random cycling means they'll probably be painting one target and shooting another without POS gunners online.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-01-02 02:07:27 UTC
I'd be slightly concerned with a combo of web / POS module power TP's / Large guns potentially blapping targets off the field when gunned.

I'm a usability bonus to the effectiveness of POS missile launchers, but I'm leery of the guns being the main benefactor of a TP POS mod, especially if it gains as much of an upgrade as the web module -> web POS module gets.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-01-02 02:19:15 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
I'd be slightly concerned with a combo of web / POS module power TP's / Large guns potentially blapping targets off the field when gunned.

I'm a usability bonus to the effectiveness of POS missile launchers, but I'm leery of the guns being the main benefactor of a TP POS mod, especially if it gains as much of an upgrade as the web module -> web POS module gets.

Well that's kind of the idea; starbases should be a bit stronger against smaller targets, especially cruisers and bombers. I WOULD like this introduced specifically as a straight buff to starbase defenses, just to get that out in the open.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-01-02 02:33:25 UTC
Well ok, what sort of Sig bloom are you thinking of?

If we follow the Stasis webifier -> Stasis Webifier Battery jump, It would be a full 50% bloom, more than a Republic Fleet Target painter mounted on a Huginn with Lv IV recon.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-01-02 02:58:15 UTC
I think the web batteries should be nerfed. I don't know if they have stacking penalties on effect applied to one target, but they should. The most powerful combo for hitting anyone should come with a combination of web and painter batteries.

Also, starbase batteries should be much more effective when a player is operating them. I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but it seems like it can't be much because nobody does it, and in defense strat ops, the FC never asks who has starbase defense management skill but instead just asks everyone to bring a combat ship. Starbase Defense Management should be buffed until it starts getting used. My thoughts are to make batteries fire at random targets but be strong enough to blap ships were they focusing fire. That way, they are still very strong unoperated against small gangs, and would also be strong against a large fleet if they were operated.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-01-02 03:25:10 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Well ok, what sort of Sig bloom are you thinking of?

If we follow the Stasis webifier -> Stasis Webifier Battery jump, It would be a full 50% bloom, more than a Republic Fleet Target painter mounted on a Huginn with Lv IV recon.

I'd be alright with having them just be slightly more than normal TP's; 40%+ would be more. I also agree with Reaver's above sentiment with reducing web tower range, which is frankly absurd now that I think about it. Would you consider limiting web range down to scrambler tower range to be an acceptable offset?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-01-02 03:48:16 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I think the web batteries should be nerfed. I don't know if they have stacking penalties on effect applied to one target, but they should. The most powerful combo for hitting anyone should come with a combination of web and painter batteries.

Also, starbase batteries should be much more effective when a player is operating them. I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but it seems like it can't be much because nobody does it, and in defense strat ops, the FC never asks who has starbase defense management skill but instead just asks everyone to bring a combat ship. Starbase Defense Management should be buffed until it starts getting used. My thoughts are to make batteries fire at random targets but be strong enough to blap ships were they focusing fire. That way, they are still very strong unoperated against small gangs, and would also be strong against a large fleet if they were operated.

I definitely agree with you on the web nerf, but not on the random firing so much. Having single items like points and webs stack with grouped amounts of gun and ewar batteries would be ideal. In regards to starbase defense management, the reqs for that recently got anchoring dropped to 4. Perhaps a leveled bonus like increasing targeting speed for the batteries would be ideal?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#10 - 2015-01-02 03:53:58 UTC
I don't have a problem with POS defenses being very powerful. They have to have a POS gunner(s) anyway to do anything half way useful. Once you account for the fact that it requires multiple POS gunners to really focus fire in any meaningful way, POS's could do with a bit of a buff.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-01-02 04:51:46 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I also agree with Reaver's above sentiment with reducing web tower range

I was actually thinking of reducing the web velocity reduction, but reducing the range would be good too. Maybe both would be good, actually.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#12 - 2015-01-02 05:21:37 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Well ok, what sort of Sig bloom are you thinking of?

If we follow the Stasis webifier -> Stasis Webifier Battery jump, It would be a full 50% bloom, more than a Republic Fleet Target painter mounted on a Huginn with Lv IV recon.


Let's analyse the problem you have raised. For the purposes of the equation lets say a bomber has a sig of 60 and a speed of 400.

Pos web applies 90%. Ergo the speed of the bomber is now 80.
Pos tp applies 50%. The sig of the bomber is now 90.

Pos Web would still be grossly more useful than pos tp against this target.

Against battleships however you got from 120m/s to 12 and from 400bloom to 600bloom. For the purposes of citadel missiles this is marginally more useful.

In brief the tp is much much less effective than web up the same range. The only real strength of the tp is tht it goes much further than even a fully skilled and linked huginn with faction webs. The bonus to combat ability the tp provides though is much less useful. It is frequently better to reduce the missile explosion radius than try to bloom the targets sig because the ratios you achieve are better when using missile sig reductions.

I hope that helped. P.s. buff missiles.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2015-01-03 14:49:58 UTC
if you want to hit small ships fit small batteries

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-01-03 23:54:51 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Let's analyse the problem you have raised. For the purposes of the equation lets say a bomber has a sig of 60 and a speed of 400.

Pos web applies 90%. Ergo the speed of the bomber is now 80.
Pos tp applies 50%. The sig of the bomber is now 90.

Pos Web would still be grossly more useful than pos tp against this target.

You mean bomber speed is now 40?

This is why I think the web amount should be greatly nerfed. It can be stronger than the painter as long as it has less range, but slowing ships by 90% can easily make weapons two size classes higher able to hit them easily. Frigates will get hit with battleship turrets like a tommygun hitting the broadside of a barn at point-blank range, and even battleships wouldn't be very good at sig-tanking a dreadnought with speed reduction like that.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-01-04 05:48:12 UTC
Ill be 100% honest, my POS has faction guns webs and scrams. Those faction webs are 97.5% slow, the faction guns have reduce sig resolution, small guns are 40, medium are 120 and large guns are 400. I don't see the point in a target painter for guns, I understand the missiles but at the same time no one really uses missiles for POS defense for 2 reasons.

First reason is the sig radius/speed of missiles and their targets, and yeah you can you webs to slow them.
The second and more important reason is this, when a POS goes into reinforced all POS modules that use CPU go offline. So in terms of weapons this means your webs, scrams, ECM and MISSILES go offline where as guns stay online.

Id rather see a rework on the missile batteries to give an explosion radius reduction rather than a TP as a POS module
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#16 - 2015-01-04 06:23:33 UTC
Missiles aside, what would really make pos turrets shine is a tracking enhancer battery for the pos turrets.

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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-01-04 18:29:10 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Missiles aside, what would really make pos turrets shine is a tracking enhancer battery for the pos turrets.

roooaaarr Twisted

oh god mods for starbases...
ShockedShockedShockedShocked
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-01-04 18:54:04 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Missiles aside, what would really make pos turrets shine is a tracking enhancer battery for the pos turrets.

roooaaarr Twisted

because the webs don't slow targets down enough?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#19 - 2015-01-04 21:42:40 UTC
Daoden wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Missiles aside, what would really make pos turrets shine is a tracking enhancer battery for the pos turrets.

roooaaarr Twisted

because the webs don't slow targets down enough?


Well it is something nobody suggested before and I thought it would make sense

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James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#20 - 2015-01-04 22:34:38 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Daoden wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Missiles aside, what would really make pos turrets shine is a tracking enhancer battery for the pos turrets.

roooaaarr Twisted

because the webs don't slow targets down enough?


Well it is something nobody suggested before and I thought it would make sense

Now, lets also take into account that this pushes up the optimal range as well, if it follows the normal pattern. 50km optimal on small blaster batteries anyone?

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