These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Can't rely on basic ship navigation?

First post
Author
Equinnox Dethahal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2015-01-03 15:44:09 UTC
If everyone warped to the gate at the exact same spot, everyone would camp that spot and just ram you off the gate.

the "RNG" as you so spastically dub it, is protection for you against gate campers knowing the exact location youll arrive.

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#22 - 2015-01-03 15:56:10 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
They can make a gate's " 0 " into a bigger volume, same with landing on stations ... but CCP wants to serve up victims. Roll
Yes, they changed the landing distance from 15km to ~0km to 'serve up victims'.
Roll

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Quanah Comanche
#23 - 2015-01-03 16:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Quanah Comanche
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG.

Makes a change.



I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system.


It is under your control. You just fail at controlling it. Maybe read the posts of what not to do and learn from it.



This. Quit trying to make it random. It's not.


I have noticed that "RNG" is the new reason gamers fail in games. Not their fault. Ever. RNG.
Alec Arbosa
Memes of Anarchy
#24 - 2015-01-03 16:29:43 UTC
Quanah Comanche wrote:
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG.

Makes a change.



I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system.


It is under your control. You just fail at controlling it. Maybe read the posts of what not to do and learn from it.



This. Quit trying to make it random. It's not.


I have noticed that "RNG" is the new reason gamers fail in games. Not their fault. Ever. RNG.



It is RNG, the way around it is removing the rng with bookmarks or with a ship that negates the tolerances within the RNG.

Its literally the definition of RNG. Quit trying to make it not random.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-01-03 17:15:06 UTC
Flying naked, though fun and frisky, is not recommended.
Serene Repose
#26 - 2015-01-03 17:19:37 UTC
No. Don't quit EVE because of this. Just stop posting. TYVM have a nice day! Big smile

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#27 - 2015-01-03 17:46:02 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
I warped to a gate at 0, the warp took me to 2550 and then I was podded by a thrasher with sensor boosters. Really seems weird that you can't even rely on the basic navigation functions of a ship? Is that really the case or did something else happen?

Might aswell throw your money into a slot machine if its RNG where you warp to.

If this rare of the rarest occasions is reason for you to quit I am certain this is indeed not the game for you. Can I have your stuff?
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#28 - 2015-01-03 17:55:14 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'm going to play the 'Back in My Day' card here.

Son, you got it easy. Why, back in my day you'd warp to zero with a freighter and it would bounce off the gate. That's right.

Bounce...off the gate.

At the keyboard. Paying attention. And you still end up 45kms away from the safety of that jumpgate. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Mr Epeen Cool


I know you are making this up.

'Back in our day' we didn't have WTZ. We warped to 15, tried to warp through the gate to 15 on the other side, made a bookmark and then tested each bookmark to see if it landed us close to the gate, repeat and rinsed entire routes.

Back to the OP, it has always been like this. Stations are even worse. Perimeter, Warp to Jita IV 4 will land you 2500 away every time. It's why I have Insta and on true 0 warp bookmarks for Jita. Most wrecks there are on the slow boat to true 0.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Solecist Project
#29 - 2015-01-03 18:01:54 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.


So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone.

Troll.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#30 - 2015-01-03 18:04:22 UTC
It should be noted: The same thing can happen with warping to stations.

The way to avoid it, on route you travel regularly, is drop a bookmark within jump/dock range. So even if you're 2.5km behind the point, you're still in range.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#31 - 2015-01-03 18:38:27 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
It isn't.

Either Lug got lucky, or you tried to jump with aggression.

You almost always land in jump range. Use 'jump' to warp to out-gate, not 'warp to' then 'jump'. Spam jump when you land for bonus paranoia points.

Anyways, even in lowsec it's advisable not to warp directly to gate (especially in Black Rise, if Santo Trafficante is around), but first to a 'pounce' 200-300km off gate. That's because smartbombers camp gates, too, and they don't need a lock to blap your pod. Actually, you don't even have to land (they balp you while you're still in warp).


There's very little rng in EVE (ECM, and turret damage), but in both cases players have full control on the odds.


Fly fun


Not really true - on a route of say 20 jumps I will land outside of jump range atleast once often 2 and sometimes more times, hence I've built up a collection of BMs that place me on 0 while as far from the sweet spots for ganking as possible on the stations and gates around trade hubs.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-01-03 18:44:32 UTC
Quanah Comanche wrote:



This. Quit trying to make it random. It's not.


I have noticed that "RNG" is the new reason gamers fail in games. Not their fault. Ever. RNG.



In world of tanks I got tired of losing specific things, like my gun. I would even make it my goal to break the enemies gun, but all that would get me was a ton of 0 damage critical hits and the enemies gun never broke. Then I found out people had modded the game to see specific weakpoints on many tanks (even against the rules). I also discovered, it's not shooting the gun that mattered, it's shooting a tiny section on the gun barrel different from gun to gun. Which is why me just shooting the barrel did nothing.


The point? The game is better with RNG, but as always cheaters cheat. I also don't know what to say to the whole making gold stuff available for earnable credits, because then it came down to "pro" players loading ALL gold, negating anything with armor that wasn't a russian tank. They thought it would appease the pay to win whiners, when it just 100% buttfucked the games balance.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#33 - 2015-01-03 18:48:06 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'm going to play the 'Back in My Day' card here.

Son, you got it easy. Why, back in my day you'd warp to zero with a freighter and it would bounce off the gate. That's right.

Bounce...off the gate.

At the keyboard. Paying attention. And you still end up 45kms away from the safety of that jumpgate. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Mr Epeen Cool



I was waiting for someone to bring up WTZ.

Back in my day we had to burn to the gates. First thing noobs learned was afterburners. That 15KM was always uphill, both ways.

(Of course that was also before "kill everything that moves for no reason" gate camping as a KB full of rookie ships and noob pods was a disgrace back when standards were higher)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-01-03 18:53:07 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Not really true - on a route of say 20 jumps I will land outside of jump range atleast once often 2 and sometimes more times, hence I've built up a collection of BMs that place me on 0 while as far from the sweet spots for ganking as possible on the stations and gates around trade hubs.
Maybe 5-10% is the chance to land slightly out of jump range, as you say.


But in order to also DIE:

. You have to be in something squishy
. The gate has to have gankers with high scan res and high alpha
. They have to try to lock you (sometimes they won't even bother, for various reasons)
. The whole server tick thing has to be in their favor (else by the time the server accepts their 'lock request', you'll have already travelled the 100m or so to jump range)


So it's very rare to die that way.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Vorran
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-01-03 19:26:35 UTC
you should have seen the mess warp to 0 made when they first implemented it .

getting bounced off gate doing 300,000 ms lol was a fun time till they corrected it and titan bowling was born :)

Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#36 - 2015-01-03 19:32:18 UTC
What? uhm, get a shuttle at least. Chalk it up as lesson learned and move on sheesh
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#37 - 2015-01-03 19:56:56 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land?


You can control the margin as much as you can control the depth of your feelers into the unknown void that represents the Fessionical ether. Plunge deeper and uncover the worlds that await when you release the brakes and fly down the rails with disregard for fatalities.

yes

Velicitia
XS Tech
#38 - 2015-01-03 20:53:32 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land?



it's not "some random distance" from 0.

For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large.


This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000.



So it is random, but within some limits? correct? That's still random.


No. You ALWAYS land 2,500 meters from the coordinate that you're intending to hit (be it bookmark, etc).

Now, due to the dimensions of stations (and stargates), and their repsective "WTZ" points, this does mean that you slide around a bit on them. However, this is not the game choosing a random distance, just a function of you always landing a set distance from a static point that is not in the same XYZ location as the true "centerpoint" of the object.

You can actually see this happen with stations -- you can be 5-10 KM (or more!) away from touching the central axis (whatever it is) and still be "at zero" on the station.


If you want to see the sphere bit in action ... grab 5-10 friends with the same skills (or as close as possible) ... align to a BM, and then fleet warp them to zero. When you get there, just let the ships coast to a stop. You'll all be approximately 2500 meters from each other, even if you started closer (or farther apart). Now, this is affected by skills, so pilots who can stop faster (or don't stop as fast) will be farther away than 2500 meters.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-01-03 21:08:08 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land?
When you take into account the magnitude of the distances involved in warping from point a to point b, landing 2500m from your destination is pretty damn accurate.

Warp distance in Eve is measured in astronomical units (AU), 1 AU is 149,597,870,700 metres. If you warp 1 AU and land 2500m from your target instead of at 0 then that's a miniscule, as in about 0.0000017%, margin of error.

TL;DR suck it up buttercup, and give me your stuff.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-01-03 21:43:36 UTC
On a slighly related note, there does seem a change on gate jumps recently as covops ships can now land close enough to the gate to decloak but not jump for a few seconds. Not everytime but often enough to be noticeable.