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Can't rely on basic ship navigation?

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Alec Arbosa
Memes of Anarchy
#1 - 2015-01-03 14:02:38 UTC
I warped to a gate at 0, the warp took me to 2550 and then I was podded by a thrasher with sensor boosters. Really seems weird that you can't even rely on the basic navigation functions of a ship? Is that really the case or did something else happen?

Might aswell throw your money into a slot machine if its RNG where you warp to.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2015-01-03 14:04:58 UTC
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.

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Alec Arbosa
Memes of Anarchy
#3 - 2015-01-03 14:06:20 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.


So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-01-03 14:13:55 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.


So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone.
More like margin of error than RNG.

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2015-01-03 14:15:16 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.


So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone.

Imagine 50 ships warping to the same point. With the deviation you have a small sphere of ships. Without it you have all ships on top of each other exploding like a shrapnel bomb when they bump each other with maximum force.

There is a reason this exists and I told you how you can compensate for it.

Also specific bookmarks for stations that assure you are always within the docking range on warp in are really helpful if you are being a target.

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Posting With Alt
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-01-03 14:15:53 UTC
This is why I don't install the latest version of WarpOS on my ships until all of the initial bugs are worked out and patched.
Alec Arbosa
Memes of Anarchy
#7 - 2015-01-03 14:16:10 UTC
Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-01-03 14:20:12 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.


So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone.
It isn't.

Either Lug got lucky, or you tried to jump with aggression.

You almost always land in jump range. Use 'jump' to warp to out-gate, not 'warp to' then 'jump'. Spam jump when you land for bonus paranoia points.

Anyways, even in lowsec it's advisable not to warp directly to gate (especially in Black Rise, if Santo Trafficante is around), but first to a 'pounce' 200-300km off gate. That's because smartbombers camp gates, too, and they don't need a lock to blap your pod. Actually, you don't even have to land (they balp you while you're still in warp).


There's very little rng in EVE (ECM, and turret damage), but in both cases players have full control on the odds.


Fly fun

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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#9 - 2015-01-03 14:20:41 UTC
I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG.

Makes a change.

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Alec Arbosa
Memes of Anarchy
#10 - 2015-01-03 14:22:14 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG.

Makes a change.



I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system.
Alec Arbosa
Memes of Anarchy
#11 - 2015-01-03 14:29:46 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.


So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone.
It isn't.

Either Lug got lucky, or you tried to jump with aggression.

You almost always land in jump range. Use 'jump' to warp to out-gate, not 'warp to' then 'jump'. Spam jump when you land for bonus paranoia points.

Anyways, even in lowsec it's advisable not to warp directly to gate (especially in Black Rise, if Santo Trafficante is around), but first to a 'pounce' 200-300km off gate. That's because smartbombers camp gates, too, and they don't need a lock to blap your pod. Actually, you don't even have to land (they balp you while you're still in warp).


There's very little rng in EVE (ECM, and turret damage), but in both cases players have full control on the odds.


Fly fun



The smartbombing is fine, as its an aoe that hits as you land, landing outside of jump range then being targetted and killed is totally different.

Quote:
You almost always land in jump range.


If you press jump or warp to 0 and almost always instead of always land within jump range its RNG as there is no player skill involved.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2015-01-03 14:34:31 UTC
You do not have to bookmark much, if anything (only gates/stations you frequent and/or have "special concerns" for).

For the most part, you'll land well within docking/jumping distance. The times you do not can be easily corrected with a quick AB/MWD burn into range for a second or two.
The situation you decribed above OP is more or less a fluke. It happens, but not that often. And only with small ships.

How did you Veterans start?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#13 - 2015-01-03 14:36:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land?



it's not "some random distance" from 0.

For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large.


This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000.

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-01-03 14:36:46 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
If you press jump or warp to 0 and almost always instead of always land within jump range its RNG as there is no player skill involved.
Yes, I agree, you should definitely quit EVE because of this.

The only reason I'm still playing is because I've never lost a pod to that very small possibility.

If/when it ever happens to me, I promise I'll post on GD and let you know if I've decided to quit too.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Alec Arbosa
Memes of Anarchy
#15 - 2015-01-03 14:41:05 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land?



it's not "some random distance" from 0.

For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large.


This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000.



So it is random, but within some limits? correct? That's still random.
Claud Tiberius
#16 - 2015-01-03 14:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Claud Tiberius
Abrazzar wrote:
There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time.

Thats not really relevant unless you are warping to an object such as a station, gate, POS - If the pilot is using a bookmark and it's placed within the station (or other safe area), it nulls all the effort in randomness and risk that CCP has tried to add with warping-in. Since the bookmark will place you comfortably within 0km.

For that reason, bookmarks can be OP, as the defender, even the oldest ones, don't have their own bookmark to use.

imo this isn't how bookmarks should be used in the game.

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Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-01-03 15:03:27 UTC
Alec Arbosa wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG.

Makes a change.



I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system.


It is under your control. You just fail at controlling it. Maybe read the posts of what not to do and learn from it.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#18 - 2015-01-03 15:03:36 UTC
I'm going to play the 'Back in My Day' card here.

Son, you got it easy. Why, back in my day you'd warp to zero with a freighter and it would bounce off the gate. That's right.

Bounce...off the gate.

At the keyboard. Paying attention. And you still end up 45kms away from the safety of that jumpgate. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Mr Epeen Cool
Yourmoney Mywallet
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-01-03 15:29:33 UTC
Back in the day of any TruVet there was no warp-to-zero. There is no pipe big enoug to smoke that.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#20 - 2015-01-03 15:34:54 UTC
They can make a gate's " 0 " into a bigger volume, same with landing on stations ... but CCP wants to serve up victims. Roll

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EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
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