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What if it only took an hour of plexing to flip a system?

Author
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#21 - 2014-12-30 15:39:15 UTC
In fairness as well, to set up an attack on a defended system and actually take it requires a good chunk of effort on the attackers part if even only minimal co-ordinated defence was present.

The issue farmers provide is that if you do not attack multiple places with a degree of effort then natural farming deplexers will just keep everything safe.

Amarr for example learned a long time ago that if you want to retake grund your pvpers must be willing to plex, and they must be willing to fly all over the place. God damn i love a good caravan deployment XD
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#22 - 2014-12-30 17:36:33 UTC
Samuel Triptee wrote:
My comments stem from the attitudes of "PvP' pilots who shun the idea of farming complexes.
They can "shun" them all they want, but the fact is that assaults on key systems in FW is one of the biggest conflict drivers in the game.


Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-12-30 20:13:10 UTC
Epikurus wrote:
Samuel Triptee wrote:

Maybe I'll learn something here, but a system was flipped without running/farming one plex?

My comments stem from the attitudes of "PvP' pilots who shun the idea of farming complexes.

If it's possible to flip a system without actually taking a complex I would like to learn how.

A full scale system control battle is a rather different beast in which the plexes become terrain and victory locations for a system wide rolling fleet fight rather than just points to be farmed. In these battles most plexes get contested by full fleets on both sides, so PvP and plexing merge into one another. You don't really 'run' or 'farm' plexes in these fights so much as take and hold them.

+1 for Epikurus, he knows the deal. For a look at this in action, go visit Hasmijaala.

In short, there's two ways to make a system vulnerable:

1. Wait for farmers to plex it up, looking for systems with high contested percentage due to neglect. Then bum rush it and run a plexing fleet for about 10-12 hours to push it vulnerable, bash the hub before anyone notices it's under real threat.

2. Pick a system, push plexing fleets there until it's vulnerable, grinding down everything in your path until the iHUB is lubricated with the blood, tears, and pod goo of the wailing masses that dared defy the inevitable. Bash hub at your leisure while quoting Conan and praising the Galluminati.

Your folks are obviously familiar with the former, but that requires a convergence of high farming pressure and low deplex pressure. Amarr at Tier 4/5 with full warzone control pushed a lot of those farmers into Cal/Gal space, Combine that with decreasing Tier and lower activity on the Gallente side (due to Squid inactivity) and the contested percentages slowly creep up across the WZ. That presents opportunities for Caldari to start making easy flips off the back of this general pressure.

This, of course, increases interest from the Gallente, who become more active, causing more fights and getting more deplex alts running to reduce overall pressure. Then, the Minnies start pushing a bit on the Amarr side, gradually wearing down their Tier level, This draws the Amarr back to their WZ, which decreases overall pressure on the Cal/Gal WZ. That's the stage we're moving into now - an equalization of passive farmer pressure and active pressure from PvP groups.

As things become more difficult for passive farmers and that pressure continues to decrease, the focus then turns to those PvP centric groups who are willing to withstand the crucible of 2,000 ships per day being reduced to scrap in the pursuit of gaining just one more system.

We await that day with eager anticipation.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#24 - 2014-12-30 21:42:00 UTC
Samuel Triptee wrote:
The real topic is "Who has the power to flip a system? Farmers, or PvPers?

Current mechanics require both.

You have a PvP only corp? Good luck flipping a system, you can't even get started.

Want to farm your way to flipping a system? Can't be done, you'll need a fleet FC and PvPers to finsh the job.


I would suggest that instead of trying to modify the existing conditions to better fit your preferred style of play, that you adapt your plans to better fit the existing conditions.

For instance, have you considered what the best balance between PvPers and LP Farmers would be if your corp/alliance wanted to become efficient in flipping systems?


Best response.
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#25 - 2015-01-03 09:45:33 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:

Moreover, since you can deplex in anything, by having larger plexes count for more you're increasing the power of deplexing alts relative to everything else - including dedicated offensive plexers.


well it could be like this
offensive plexing: novice+small 0,5 / medium 0,6 / large 0,7
defensive plexing: all plexes give you same amount


+ i would add this:
for deplexing almost stable system you wont get almost any lp why not do this for offensive plexing as well?
the more the system is contested the less lp you get for offensive plexing , this would chase the farmers out and leave the system for ppl that truly want to take that system


Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-01-03 12:54:34 UTC
per wrote:
well it could be like this
offensive plexing: novice+small 0,5 / medium 0,6 / large 0,7
defensive plexing: all plexes give you same amount

+ i would add this:
for deplexing almost stable system you wont get almost any lp why not do this for offensive plexing as well?
the more the system is contested the less lp you get for offensive plexing , this would chase the farmers out and leave the system for ppl that truly want to take that system

Again, we've already got lower LP rewards for smaller plexes. And farmers are never the deciding factor for system pushes.

If you make it so med/large are worth more, that just means that the folks who can bring 100+ cruiser / BS fleets will always be able to take your system regardless of what you do - they can safely ignore the smalls and novices, since even if you capture those they still make progress.

All plexes have to have the same importance for system control or you go back to nullsec style blobfests.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#27 - 2015-01-03 13:19:11 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
per wrote:
well it could be like this
offensive plexing: novice+small 0,5 / medium 0,6 / large 0,7
defensive plexing: all plexes give you same amount

+ i would add this:
for deplexing almost stable system you wont get almost any lp why not do this for offensive plexing as well?
the more the system is contested the less lp you get for offensive plexing , this would chase the farmers out and leave the system for ppl that truly want to take that system

Again, we've already got lower LP rewards for smaller plexes. And farmers are never the deciding factor for system pushes.

If you make it so med/large are worth more, that just means that the folks who can bring 100+ cruiser / BS fleets will always be able to take your system regardless of what you do - they can safely ignore the smalls and novices, since even if you capture those they still make progress.

All plexes have to have the same importance for system control or you go back to nullsec style blobfests.

Because they couldn't just blob you in 100 frigs/destroyers?

That doesn't make sense. Bigger numbers always win. No matter what, no matter where.

pew pew

per
Terpene Conglomerate
#28 - 2015-01-03 14:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: per
Veskrashen wrote:
per wrote:
well it could be like this
offensive plexing: novice+small 0,5 / medium 0,6 / large 0,7
defensive plexing: all plexes give you same amount

+ i would add this:
for deplexing almost stable system you wont get almost any lp why not do this for offensive plexing as well?
the more the system is contested the less lp you get for offensive plexing , this would chase the farmers out and leave the system for ppl that truly want to take that system

Again, we've already got lower LP rewards for smaller plexes. And farmers are never the deciding factor for system pushes.

If you make it so med/large are worth more, that just means that the folks who can bring 100+ cruiser / BS fleets will always be able to take your system regardless of what you do - they can safely ignore the smalls and novices, since even if you capture those they still make progress.

All plexes have to have the same importance for system control or you go back to nullsec style blobfests.



thats not true as you can do novices and small faster than large plexes so if you sit with your 100+ cruisers in your large you wont achieve anything if other side will hold novices and smalls

and currently all plexes dont have same importance, clearly novice plexes are best for taking systems
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#29 - 2015-01-03 16:21:01 UTC
Zen Guerrilla wrote:
That doesn't make sense. Bigger numbers always win. No matter what, no matter where.


Hm. You might want to double check your facts with Test.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-01-03 17:58:06 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:
Zen Guerrilla wrote:
That doesn't make sense. Bigger numbers always win. No matter what, no matter where.

Hm. You might want to double check your facts with Test.

Exactly. There's ways to counter larger numbers while you're on the defensive. Much harder to assault against larger numbers though.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-01-03 17:59:12 UTC
per wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
All plexes have to have the same importance for system control or you go back to nullsec style blobfests.

thats not true as you can do novices and small faster than large plexes so if you sit with your 100+ cruisers in your large you wont achieve anything if other side will hold novices and smalls

and currently all plexes dont have same importance, clearly novice plexes are best for taking systems

Yes, but if Smalls and Novices were worth less than Mediums / Larges, that would negate that advantage. In addition, there's ways a large force could keep enough folks in small stuff to delay capping the Novices and Smalls.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

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