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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Tech 3 battleships

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2014-11-01 08:07:05 UTC
Mahna Titus wrote:
The problem with t3 BS is that there are already the T2s so they would need to be "better" then the T2s already out there and a marauder in bastion mode can be a bit of a beast, so IMO to find a balance between that and making it "not broken" is a grey area you wont find.

That said, as T3s are based on sleeper tech you could have them as being worse than T2s in base specs, however when used in a WH they get bonuses and boosts which take it above the T2 specs. (Due to sleeper tech being designed by sleepers for use in the space environments of a WH)

This helps limit the whole "OP in pvp" (I know you can still pvp in WH) and also helps give the high end WH users a bit more choice when it comes to running sites in WH

Just an idea for an alternative

Personally I liked the BS that can can use capitol weapons idea (call me whatever i dont care) but again that is a very fine balancing act



No they do not need to be better. You can make INTERESTIGN things as with the new destroyer idea. Make t3 battleship be able to change its bonus while in space between a set of 3, with a full minute colldown in between changes. THen make them have FOCUSED bonuses.

YOu can make them have about same EHP as a pirate BS (but not a navy one) and they would be on a reasonable power level.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2014-11-01 08:10:10 UTC
Gaan Cathal wrote:
viverxia wrote:
the T3 cruisers defiantly need a balance pass though -_-


Not even that hard. Set Rig Slots = 0, give HACs and Recons their balance pass. Assess T3 EHP at that point and reduce as necessary.



The balance pass is still needed because there are several subsystems compeltely worthless (like the half proj half missiles for the loki) .


Also I still think t3 SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE THE DAMM COVERT CLOAK!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#103 - 2014-11-01 08:52:20 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gaan Cathal wrote:
viverxia wrote:
the T3 cruisers defiantly need a balance pass though -_-


Not even that hard. Set Rig Slots = 0, give HACs and Recons their balance pass. Assess T3 EHP at that point and reduce as necessary.



The balance pass is still needed because there are several subsystems compeltely worthless (like the half proj half missiles for the loki) .


Also I still think t3 SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE THE DAMM COVERT CLOAK!!!

< sarc> That subsystem is one of the few ways to get a loki over 800 DPS. < /sarc >
Seriously though, while creating a toon that can run the ship effectively with such a subsystem on, and setting it up to apply the damage is hell, it ends up with a very nasty profile if done right, especially with 3 full flights of lights allowing room for things not often seen.

As for the covert cloak: I like covert cloak on them. What is currently a problem IMO is covert cynos on them, as they combine too much tank for their tradeoffs and potentially bonused tackle with the ability to bring in a massive number of glass cannons to share their prey. And again to harp on the subject of synergy, I would like to see covops and nullification made mutually exclusive, or the covops and nullifier subs given a savage beating with the nerfbat.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#104 - 2014-11-21 10:03:08 UTC
Still hoping someone actually looked at the google doc and has actual comments on it.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#105 - 2014-12-16 10:13:43 UTC
To whoever is posting on the subsystem spreadsheet. I love you for actually looking at this.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#106 - 2015-01-02 23:59:18 UTC
Any more new ideas? This is still back burner for the other two threads, but its worth bringing back up.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#107 - 2015-01-03 06:11:55 UTC
I for one vote on a BS class that is able to reverse directions rapidly even while traveling at full MWD burn.

See a situation you don't want to be headed to? Hit the button and find yourself nope noping in the other direction in 2 seconds or less. Would be a silly ship.

Is that fleet burning towards us..? Nope, chuck Testa, it's headed in the other direction now.

Yeah I'm not being serious, but it is a fun idea.


I applaud your Dr. Frankenstein-esque dedication to keeping this thread unlocked though.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2015-01-03 09:51:13 UTC
First of all let them make T2 of the tier3 battleships baddon mael rokh hiper thus would make the whole new class - other than Black Ops, Marauders ...

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2015-01-03 09:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Anhenka wrote:
See a situation you don't want to be headed to? Hit the button and find yourself nope noping in the other direction in 2 seconds or less. Would be a silly ship.

Is that fleet burning towards us..? Nope, chuck Testa, it's headed in the other direction now.

I need a subsystem that will keep my sides from splitting open.


In other news, I am posting in one T3 battleship thread both to confirm its existence and to promote my own T3 battleship thread. Maybe we can make this happen, folks.

edit: OP feel free to make a Flexible Battleship section in your OP. I want to read it if you do.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#110 - 2015-01-03 10:48:50 UTC
The best, and only, way to balance T3 BS would be to not have them at all.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#111 - 2015-01-03 10:49:09 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
See a situation you don't want to be headed to? Hit the button and find yourself nope noping in the other direction in 2 seconds or less. Would be a silly ship.

Is that fleet burning towards us..? Nope, chuck Testa, it's headed in the other direction now.

I need a subsystem that will keep my sides from splitting open.


In other news, I am posting in one T3 battleship thread both to confirm its existence and to promote my own T3 battleship thread. Maybe we can make this happen, folks.

edit: OP feel free to make a Flexible Battleship section in your OP. I want to read it if you do.


I'm not sure about the level of flexible you were promoting, but there is a modular battleship section that was the orginal idea of the thread, and which has mostly fleshed out subsytems for the minmatar t3, which seemed the easiest to make balanced, and thus the best place to start.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#112 - 2015-01-03 11:08:01 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
The best, and only, way to balance T3 BS would be to not have them at all.


I think it can be balanced. I also think it would need to be released as what is thought to be way under par and adjusted slowly upwards.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#113 - 2015-01-03 11:41:21 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
The best, and only, way to balance T3 BS would be to not have them at all.


I think it can be balanced. I also think it would need to be released as what is thought to be way under par and adjusted slowly upwards.


No, it can't. A ~300k EHP BS with ~1200+ dps and all kinds of funky bonuses is inherently imbalanced, using the old T3 modular design would make for hilarious bullshit fits. Using the new T3 design (Confessor) would just poop on all other ships. It's one of those "wouldn't it be cool if" idea where we ended up with titans, the initial T3 and whatnot. All funky ideas that caused years of massive balance/gameplay issues.

There is no reason to have T3 BS other than "I WANTS IT CUZ NEW STUFF IS COOL AND OVERPOWERED STUFF IS FUN!!!!!", there is no tactical need for them. It can only end in tears because it either comes prenerfed to a degree where it's useless or it'll be hilariously OP.
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#114 - 2015-01-03 16:59:40 UTC
Tech 0 battleship like gnosis seems more interesting...

Is that my two cents or yours?
Director Blackflame
Voidspace Solutions
#115 - 2015-01-04 00:02:48 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
The best, and only, way to balance T3 BS would be to not have them at all.


I think it can be balanced. I also think it would need to be released as what is thought to be way under par and adjusted slowly upwards.


No, it can't. A ~300k EHP BS with ~1200+ dps and all kinds of funky bonuses is inherently imbalanced, using the old T3 modular design would make for hilarious bullshit fits. Using the new T3 design (Confessor) would just poop on all other ships. It's one of those "wouldn't it be cool if" idea where we ended up with titans, the initial T3 and whatnot. All funky ideas that caused years of massive balance/gameplay issues.

There is no reason to have T3 BS other than "I WANTS IT CUZ NEW STUFF IS COOL AND OVERPOWERED STUFF IS FUN!!!!!", there is no tactical need for them. It can only end in tears because it either comes prenerfed to a degree where it's useless or it'll be hilariously OP.



Not speaking of any of the ideas put forth here but if you think a T3 BS has the potential to be either useless or hilariously OP it likewise could fall in between those boundaries and be balanced. Nothing says a T3 BS has to have 300k ehp in fact nothing says it even has to have ehp on par with a T1 battleship there are many variables that contribute to a ships usefulness beyond just dps and tank.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#116 - 2015-01-04 00:37:39 UTC
Technically sure, realistically not going to happen. They're either too expensive for what they are and won't be used because they simply don't perform or they're going to be REALLY good and whatever the cost ppl will use them and it'll mess up just about everything.

How many years have T3 cruisers messed up any form of balance, they have done so since they got introduced in 2009 and it wouldn't surprise me if that will continue to be the case. Look at our current T3. some of them are "OP" for a specific use, others are just "crap" and essentially gimmicks depending on what use you have for them. How many T3 do we have atm where we all go "yeah it's all right, it's a decent option", that just doesn't happen.