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[Autocannons] A Balance Suggestion

Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#441 - 2015-01-03 06:28:39 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


How do you rank up on killboards ?

By appearing on KILLMAILS !

How are you supposed to appear on killmail while you are LOGI ?

I hope that you are not serious while saying this kind of things... Shocked


The Scythe got 5,247 kills last month, the Exequror 3,750. Logi ships do get killmails, the agouror and osprey don't because they don't see much use.
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#442 - 2015-01-03 06:32:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
Yeah those Orthrus' have been around forever right? They are less than 6 months old. Enough.


The cynable, Vigilant, phantasm, gila and ashimmu are all old ships. Most pirate faction ships are not new, what you said was a lie.



Yeah and you used the one Pirate Cruiser as your example that has not been around. Cynabals with a falloff of 40km and not 35km are not going to break the game Baltec1. You are out of you f****** mind.

-Badman

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#443 - 2015-01-03 06:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
Yeah those Orthrus' have been around forever right? They are less than 6 months old. Enough.


The cynable, Vigilant, phantasm, gila and ashimmu are all old ships. Most pirate faction ships are not new, what you said was a lie.



Yeah and you used the one Pirate Cruiser as your example that has not been around. Cynabals with a falloff of 40km and not 35km are not going to break the game Baltec1. You are out of you f****** mind.


I used two examples, three with the vigilant. Even the Gila came nowhere near the cynable.


CCP took 10% off tracking enhancers. You want to inject that back directly into the guns themselves.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#444 - 2015-01-03 06:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
baltec1 wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


How do you rank up on killboards ?

By appearing on KILLMAILS !

How are you supposed to appear on killmail while you are LOGI ?

I hope that you are not serious while saying this kind of things... Shocked


The Scythe got 5,247 kills last month, the Exequror 3,750. Logi ships do get killmails, the agouror and osprey don't because they don't see much use.


Feels like you dont play to this game....

Scythe is used by most of the welp fleets, as is the exequror, augoror is doing a pretty good job as the osprey but ppl dont use it over Guardian / basi as they are mostly looking for cap chain a solid ship.

In NS blob ppl will prefer Scythe Exeq because of rep effectivness over cap chain, is that hard to understand ?

but that's out of the subject...

baltec1 wrote:


I used two examples, three with the vigilant. Even the Gila came nowhere near the cynable.
.


I've already aswered to this earlier.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#445 - 2015-01-03 06:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


In NS blob ppl will prefer Scythe Exeq because of rep effectivness over cap chain, is that hard to understand ?


What part of "it is an example of an underused ship" do you not understand?

baltec1 wrote:


[quote=Daide Vondrichnov]

I've already aswered to it earlier.


Yet people will continue to say blasters overshadow autos.
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#446 - 2015-01-03 07:03:09 UTC
Because they do Baltec1. On hulls without a specific falloff bonus, Blasters absolutely overshadow auto-cannons.

-Badman

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#447 - 2015-01-03 07:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
baltec1 wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


In NS blob ppl will prefer Scythe Exeq because of rep effectivness over cap chain, is that hard to understand ?


What part of "it is an example of an underused ship" do you not understand?
.


Situational ships...

Why using a scimitar over a basilisk ?

Why using guardian over a Oneiros ?

Because they have not the same role.

baltec1 wrote:


Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


I've already aswered to it earlier.


Yet people will continue to say blasters overshadow autos.


Vigilant is situational their is only few ways were it will overshadow loki as webber.

-Dread Blap
-Gate camp
-Webbing a 100mn cruiser
-Webbing cap to make them warp fast (lol)

Blaster overshadow AC brawling ship while AC do not worth it as a kitting platform, do you understand thaaaat ?

So again you're saying that many alliance are using it, but ask to your CFC pilots how they use their cynabals, do they really kite with ? or just rush people like all of the cynabals pilots that i've seen in the last month ...
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#448 - 2015-01-03 07:04:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


It was the go to ship because it was horribly overpowered. This thread is asking to undo one of the big nerfs that were needed.



Actually no. 10-15% buff is not going to undue the TE nerf buff. Remember when you said most minny ships fit TE's in their lows cause they have room? Its because a/c range was balanced around them. CCP nerfed the TE without modifying base a/c stats to prevent completely neutering them. But in typical heavy handed fashion, they are doing to a/c's what they did to heavy missiles, the cane, and the drake. TE's were nerfed 50% across the board, nothing done to base a/c fall-off to compensate (similar to scorch nerf you just saw recently).

I'm not denying they weren't over powered in the past, and that a nerf was due, but CCP over-nerfed it and now its floundering after hybrids were buffed.

Quote:
People have been saying a/c ships are not popular and dont get used.


Where? We've been saying from the beginning that a/c fall-off is not in a good spot. The cynabal is not flown solo as often as it used to be (it still see's use in gangs) due to this lack of applied damage at fall-off. Its sad my 200m pirate hull can't apply more than a frigates worth of dps at point range.

But you don't want to actually discuss the topic, just blather on about killboard and market data. Misdirecting, manipulating and otherwise just trying to sabotage the thread. I don't mind if you don't agree, but some of your posts are either blatantly trolling, or just flat out wrong. Like rax vs ruppy comparo, or that you think its difficult for 200mm rails to fit on a rax (its not).

Or my favorite "a/c's are good because they show up on matari turret based ships on the KB"... i mean.. really? That is revolutionary stuff right there, i see why the Goons hold you in such high regard.


baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#449 - 2015-01-03 07:10:31 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


Vigilant is situational their is only few ways were it will overshadow loki as webber.

-Dread Blap
-Gate camp
-Webbing a 100mn cruiser
-Webbing cap to make them warp fast (lol)

Blaster overshadow AC brawling ship while AC do not worth it as a kitting platform, do you understand thaaaat ?

So again you're saying that many alliance are using it, but ask to your CFC pilots how they use their cynabals, do they really kite with ? or just rush people like all of the cynabals pilots that i've seen in the last month ...


So, blasters overpower a/c but the vigilant is a situational ship despite being a thorax on steroids...

These arguments make zero sense. We have the evidenmce that shows auto cannon ships are either killing just as many targets as the other ships or better. There is no evidence that shows a/c need to be buffed. Infact, all evidence shows they would be overpowered if you do buff them.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#450 - 2015-01-03 07:12:13 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Actually no. 10-15% buff is not going to undue the TE nerf buff.



They were nerfed by 10% because auto ships were overpowering everything. So yes, adding 10-15% would indeed undo the nerf that was very much needed.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#451 - 2015-01-03 07:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
baltec1 wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


Vigilant is situational their is only few ways were it will overshadow loki as webber.

-Dread Blap
-Gate camp
-Webbing a 100mn cruiser
-Webbing cap to make them warp fast (lol)

Blaster overshadow AC brawling ship while AC do not worth it as a kitting platform, do you understand thaaaat ?

So again you're saying that many alliance are using it, but ask to your CFC pilots how they use their cynabals, do they really kite with ? or just rush people like all of the cynabals pilots that i've seen in the last month ...


So, blasters overpower a/c but the vigilant is a situational ship despite being a thorax on steroids...

These arguments make zero sense. We have the evidenmce that shows auto cannon ships are either killing just as many targets as the other ships or better. There is no evidence that shows a/c need to be buffed. Infact, all evidence shows they would be overpowered if you do buff them.


Mb because their are ships that will be better at being damage dealer and will cost less while being more resistant ?
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#452 - 2015-01-03 07:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
baltec1 wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Actually no. 10-15% buff is not going to undue the TE nerf buff.



They were nerfed by 10% because auto ships were overpowering everything. So yes, adding 10-15% would indeed undo the nerf that was very much needed.


Kinda nice how you breezed through that. Cherry picking as usual. Still assuming kb stats apply to solo and not reading the whole post.

You sure are trying really hard not to have acs intrude on your hybrid win button. Show us on the doll where the big bad ac's touched you. You know whats different this time? Hybrids were buffed too.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#453 - 2015-01-03 07:25:09 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


Mb because their are ships that will be better at being damage dealer and will cost less while being more resistant ?



You do realise the vigilant has the longest ranged blasters in the cruiser lineup don't you?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#454 - 2015-01-03 07:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Actually no. 10-15% buff is not going to undue the TE nerf buff.



They were nerfed by 10% because auto ships were overpowering everything. So yes, adding 10-15% would indeed undo the nerf that was very much needed.


Kinda nice how you breezed through that. Cherry picking as usual. Still assuming kb stats apply to solo and not reading the whole post.

You sure are trying really hard not to have acs intrude on your hybrid win button. Show us on the doll where the big bad ac's touched you. You know whats different this time? Hybrids were buffed too.



Because they were being crushed by everything else. Bringing back that 10% would return us to cynabals online. If hybrids are overpowered why do a/c ships get more kill than them?
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#455 - 2015-01-03 07:32:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


Mb because their are ships that will be better at being damage dealer and will cost less while being more resistant ?



You do realise the vigilant has the longest ranged blasters in the cruiser lineup don't you?


Deimos has the same range, fail ?
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#456 - 2015-01-03 07:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
baltec1 wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Actually no. 10-15% buff is not going to undue the TE nerf buff.



They were nerfed by 10% because auto ships were overpowering everything. So yes, adding 10-15% would indeed undo the nerf that was very much needed.


Kinda nice how you breezed through that. Cherry picking as usual. Still assuming kb stats apply to solo and not reading the whole post.

You sure are trying really hard not to have acs intrude on your hybrid win button. Show us on the doll where the big bad ac's touched you. You know whats different this time? Hybrids were buffed too.



Because they were being crushed by everything else. Bringing back that 10% would return us to cynabals online. If hybrids are overpowered why do a/c ships get more kill than them?


Unlikely. Did you forget about drones? Ishtars/vexors online? Infact, acs would be a decent counter to those ships. Not a dunking, but a gf.

Also, looking at the old thread people were bitching about the talos more than minmatar stuff. A lot has been rebalanced since then.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#457 - 2015-01-03 07:37:20 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:


Mb because their are ships that will be better at being damage dealer and will cost less while being more resistant ?



You do realise the vigilant has the longest ranged blasters in the cruiser lineup don't you?


Deimos has the same range, fail ?


Thats a hac, not a cruiser.

If we are going to include them then the vagabond is more lethal and the cynabal dwarfs its kills.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#458 - 2015-01-03 07:42:14 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Unlikely. Did you forget about drones? Ishtars/vexors online? Infact, acs would be a decent counter to those ships. Not a dunking, but a gf.

Also, looking at the old thread people were bitching about the talos more than minmatar stuff. A lot has been rebalanced since then.


Having lived though it it was the cynabals that dominated with the cane, vagabond, SFI and stabber close behind. You plan will bring that horrible age back.
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#459 - 2015-01-03 08:45:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
[quote=baltec1]


Raxes are normally fit with rails and will easilly out run ruppies, and keep pace with stabbers. and will out damage both with long range weapons vs close range weapons.

the ruppy can barely fit arty, and is slow with no tackle. and the NONE of the stabber hulls can fit arty, while rax, ENIs and Diemost can 5 rails with ease, and can keep pace with matari quick close range counterparts. plus pulse lasers are essentially snipers anyway.

just about all matari ships are quick glass cannons which got completely ****** by so many nerfs it is not even funny.

- PG cant fit arty or nuets......lol utility highs
- agility, cant kite or drop angular
- they already had a lot of drawbacks
-- ****** tank
-- less guns
-- bad fitting



rax with mwd 2028

stabber mwd 2435

rax will not fit 250mm or 200mm rails with ease, arty is not the only long range weapon that ships struggle to fit, its a trait nearly every turret boat has.



hmm fit an ENI with 5 250s only using one ACR only have AWU 4 and this thing still out damages pretty much every matari cruiser I have. with **** gallente skills. Oh and this ENI is faster and more agile than my vaga since I could actually afford to fit a Polycarb plus nano, and get 500 DPS out to point range...... with really bad skills.

seen a 250 fit Deimost, only using one ACR and a Hybrid Weapon Rig.

stabber hulls.... all 3 of them need 3 ACRs for ZERO tank crap DPS, poor tracking and mediocre speed............ good capless volley damage I guess.

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#460 - 2015-01-03 08:54:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
baltec1 wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Unlikely. Did you forget about drones? Ishtars/vexors online? Infact, acs would be a decent counter to those ships. Not a dunking, but a gf.

Also, looking at the old thread people were bitching about the talos more than minmatar stuff. A lot has been rebalanced since then.


Having lived though it it was the cynabals that dominated with the cane, vagabond, SFI and stabber close behind. You plan will bring that horrible age back.


Cool story, now there is RLML, OP drone boat and a **** tons of inty ...

So no cynabal / vagabond can't "rules".