Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Do go on about how a 40% drop in optimal doesn't hurt the rax or that an armour rupture is impossible to comprehend.

There is your armor Rupture Baltec, those get flown every day, and they brawl.

This is the point that you are missing here Baltec, with out the damage projection, un-bonused Minimitar hulls are forced to brawl. The fits I just showed you should show you the disparity in DPS between Blasters and Auto-cannons. You advocated yourself pulling range, and that does work in some small hulls, however once you move to medium auto cannons the range disparity is too narrow and the DPS disparity is too great.

Your statistics include things like other ships being present for either support dps, or tackle. You seem to be completely ignoring solo encounters because the scenario's you present are completely flawed and skewed towards gang/fleet combat (no surprise really). You are cherry picking the encounters that favor a/c's, and that blasters are somehow always at a disadvantage against a/c's, which is simply not true. By shooting into massive explo holes (lol) and capping out every opponent.

As in the most recent example, seemingly forgetting that thorax's can fit a cap booster in its mids, and that somehow it can't fit an explo hardener. So the rupture just seems to go right through it, like its nothing. Yes, in that example it would, but its rare that someone doesn't put a cap booster, or not plug an explo hole on a thorax. Missiles do explo damage too, and are just as common as a/c.

I didn't say blasters and a/c's have the same range, i said they project the same. The entire thread has been about a/c's medium engagement range being buffed with a fall-off increase. Thus shifting the dps curve into a meatier medium engagement range. A/c's don't start to out dps blasters until 15-20km depending on the ship and fit. That is using barrage, not its "selectable damage type" that you keep touting as some kind of universal thing with a/c's. Selectable damage type only really applies in short range engagements. If you use selectable damage type, you will never out dps the rax when its using null, even at 20km. There needs to a bigger disparity between a/c's and blasters, as blasters are already overlapping a/c's engagement range. This is most noticeable on hulls without fall-off bonuses.

As an example, 425's with selectable damage type don't out dps null neutrons until 20km, and by then, the dps is so pathetic, an explorer frig could do more dps with its drones. Now, with barrage you will outdps them at about 15km, but you're stuck with barrage. Its not selectabe damage type when you are forced to use barrage to project anything better than blasters. That is why blasters are mentioned in this thread. Not once did i mention a/c's should be better brawlers than blasters. Not sure where you got that.

You have 2 issues with a/c's, they start losing dps after 1-2km, and then have overall lower dps. This, combined with TE nerf makes them unsuitable to kite because they are not applying enough dps to kill more than a frigate and maybe a buffer fit cruiser. That is not versatile, or adaptable, that is a niche` support fit. You are delusional if you think that my kiting a/c ship like a vagabond, can apply enough dps at point range to kill an active repp'd anything. ****, it took me a good 1.5 minutes to kill an ancil rep fed comet at 20km with 180's on my vagabond (with 2 TE and ambit rig). The dps was so low, a frigate could tank it fairly well until i moved in near 15-18km, which puts me dangerously close to web range.

And you forget a few things about your scenario there. The rax is faster than the rupture, if both are A/B fit, or both are MWD fit. If blaster thorax wants to scram a/c rupture, it will. If rail thorax wants to kite a/c rupture, it will. See, thorax has 2 options, rupture has 1 for longer range encounters, and is also slow, meaning not just thorax's can kite it, but so can just about everything else.

Also, a shield ruppy is most likely going to have a nano to help offset its slow speed, or poly rigs, which will reduce EHP and mean you can't fit either a TE or gyro, or in other cases a DCU (normally t2 minmatar stuff). This further reduces its applied dps while kiting.

Using the tool available to gain an advantage is exactly what you should be doing.




You lose damage by fitting the explosive hardener.



No, what you want is to undo the TE nerf but only for a/c.

I got it from the fact that you only ever use blasters as an example.




So use a stabber then and simply kite away to your hearts content if the rupture is too much of a risk for you to handle.

Yeah, so use a falloff bonus-ed hull is what you are advocating.

If you want to kite and only kite then yes, use the ship specialised for doing it.

What the hell is that? If that wasn't screaming "look i'm one of Baltec's perfectly imagined counter to a thorax that no one flies because its terrible" (cherry picked). What other scenario would that work in? Why would i fit a rupture to go solo in that? Do i only expect to fight only thoraxes? An RLML caracal would eat that up. Here, let me make a thorax with the same fit as your rupture that counters it perfectly and barely has to try.

[Thorax, Barely trying]
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Explo hole is well covered at 65%. Can pop cap boosters with ease to overcome your medium neut to keep guns and explo hardener running. Is faster than your rupture, so can just sit at 0 on the rupture since it will outpace it, overcoming what little use that TD is doing for you. Actually the double web ruppy would be a better counter than your TD, since you can hold the rax at range. This just shows how far off your tactics are in solo pvp. But even then, null rax will still be applying dps to you at double web range. Plus x5 medium drones.

Rax dps is 439 before drones, rupture is 366 before drones. With 1 hammer and 4 hobs, the ruppy does 477 against the thorax's 597, so roughly 120 dps difference under the best of circumstances. And if you use hail, you suffer a massive range and tracking nerf, meaning you have to be on top of them for it to be effective, which is right where blasters want you.

The null rax will out dps the fusion rupture right around 5-6km. Forcing you to load barrage, which is great against my fit. Means you're hitting my highest resist with your weakest ammo. Now, my ruppy does 292 dps against your 350dps null boat that even projects better than the ruppy. The a/c ruppy projects better past 9km, the blasters on the rax are better everywhere else. In this scenario that you've made, 9km is scram range, meaning the rax will win, and projects better than 425's with barrage against IONS, not even neutrons. Thats not including the obvious medium drone advantage the rax has. Pile drone dps on top of the thorax's already higher base dps, and its just obvious which is better.

EFT may be a few percentile's wrong, but its not that wrong, otherwise no one would use it. And actual in-game experience proves this, which is hard to get when you don't even fly the ships you're claiming are fine.

Also, fun fact. Thorax can fit a cap battery and cause the rupture to neut himself out, and last 2m 45s under medium neut pressure. Which is more than enough time to burn a rupture down with 600-700dps. So.. what was that about the neut being super effective?

[Thorax, Neutered]
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Battery II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M

Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5

Yes, i'm an EFT warrior when i've solo'd more than you have . especially in the time minmatar have been nerfed. I also only use minny ship as thats what i'm skilled in at the moment. This is how we tell nullsec scrublords from real PvPer's when you post a/b fit TD ruptures that you expect to solo in.

It will be tackled and blobbed the moment it strolls into nullsec by itself. YOUR example was the rupture and the thorax, you made this anti-thorax fit, so i made an anti-rupture fit. I'm sorry if it doesn't suit your agenda, and doesn't allow you to cherry pick the best scenarios.



Which means you sacrifice web or keep web and go single LSE which makes tank suffer. And overdrive takes place of a TE/GYRO or DCU. Thorax has to make zero sacrifices.

Stabber could use range to kill it eventually. Thorax could be fit with shield and rails which would faceroll the stabber though.

I guess that makes me an EFT warrior as well, and those fits I posted are fits I've used successfully. You know why?

Its called engagement profile, what can I attacked and stand a good chance of killing in a variety of scenarios. Blaster boats are favored in this contest over Auto Cannon boats, extending the falloff of auto cannon boats would give them a slightly larger engagement profile and make them competitive.

That's the whole point here, outside of kiting Minimitar have a very narrow band of ships they can go toe to toe without being seriously outmatched with auto-cannon damage projection being one of their major issues.

Solo PVPers know the game and the tactics better than anyone. Its easy to be successful in a blob Baltec. Why don't you look through the post again, the majority of people posting are FOR a buff to auto-cannons, not against.