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High Sec - Mining Info
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TRONEON
GAME GRID
#1 - 2015-01-02 19:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: TRONEON
I have an alt than can use retriever now and trying to find information on high sec mining and refining etc but all the info I find is either out dated, wrong or conflicting opinions on what is true, false or better worse etc.

I figured out there has been recent changes to refining from my searches but seems to be difference in opinions on whether it is better to refine ore or just to sell raw ore. Also something about a large nerf to refining in high sec stations so 100% is no longer possible.

So my first question is, assuming you have best standings with a corp and good refining skills/implants, is it better to refine high sec ore or just to sell the raw ore?

Is it worth putting up a high sec pos to refine ore in high sec?

Does ice mining make more ISK than ore mining in high sec? Worth training the ice harvesting skills? Can you gas harvest in high sec and is it worth training those skills too?

Thanks for any help is appreciated. :)
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-01-02 19:30:53 UTC
Refine vs sell, depends on the ore and the market and it changes from day to day, so there's no definitive answer there. If you mine a lot, create a spreadsheet to track prices of the ore and what it refines to and check before going to market

POS, maybe. It gets you base of 52% vs the 50% in a station, you can leave the POS offline most of the time and as long as it's not a major busy system it should be safe enough. It's not a huge bonus unless you're mining massive amounts, so that's down to effort vs little additional ISK if you decide to refine, as well as an extra option, that of compressing the ore before selling.

Other than L4 mining missions, not much worth while gas in highsec. Train if you're going to run L4 mining or you're going to ninja mine wormholes, otherwise leave alone.
TRONEON
GAME GRID
#3 - 2015-01-02 19:43:11 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Refine vs sell, depends on the ore and the market and it changes from day to day, so there's no definitive answer there. If you mine a lot, create a spreadsheet to track prices of the ore and what it refines to and check before going to market

POS, maybe. It gets you base of 52% vs the 50% in a station, you can leave the POS offline most of the time and as long as it's not a major busy system it should be safe enough. It's not a huge bonus unless you're mining massive amounts, so that's down to effort vs little additional ISK if you decide to refine, as well as an extra option, that of compressing the ore before selling.

Other than L4 mining missions, not much worth while gas in highsec. Train if you're going to run L4 mining or you're going to ninja mine wormholes, otherwise leave alone.


Ok thanks.

Lets say I was mining scordite for example, then assuming good skills, standings, implants etc is it worth refining or just sell the raw ore?

Would Ice mining be better ISK and is it worth refining Ice?

Thanks.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-01-02 21:03:50 UTC
Run the numbers, using the prices from whereever you're planning to sell the ore/minerals and your own refining skills and see. It will vary by location and time, so there's no fixed, always correct answer.

Ice vs ore is another thing that will change over time.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2015-01-02 21:03:50 UTC
TRONEON wrote:


Lets say I was mining scordite for example, then assuming good skills, standings, implants etc is it worth refining or just sell the raw ore?

Would Ice mining be better ISK and is it worth refining Ice?

Thanks.



Do the math. It changes pretty much daily.

You'd probably do best to mine for several hours, and then check prices based on your raw ore vs. expected yield of minerals.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Senakawa Skor
Opulence Depths Industries
#6 - 2015-01-02 21:15:10 UTC
Just as a data point, right now, I see scordite buy orders for 28.34 in Jita.

If you had perfect skills (reprocessing, reprocessing efficiency, scordite reprocessing - months of training), a perfect 4% implant (~200M isk investment), and a 50% reprocessing starbase, you could refine that scordite into trit and pyrite worth roughly 30.14.

If you didn't have all of those perfect skills and implants, you'd probably lose money by reprocessing at the moment. This is also ignoring any trading costs, so the spread is worse if you try to buy the scordite and resell the minerals. All in all, the amount you are leaving on the table by not reprocessing high sec minerals is fairly small.

Also, if you want, you can compress the scordite (almost no skill required, no implants, just a POS or a corp with a POS) and get similar bump in sales price.
TRONEON
GAME GRID
#7 - 2015-01-02 21:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: TRONEON
Senakawa Skor wrote:
Just as a data point, right now, I see scordite buy orders for 28.34 in Jita.

If you had perfect skills (reprocessing, reprocessing efficiency, scordite reprocessing - months of training), a perfect 4% implant (~200M isk investment), and a 50% reprocessing starbase, you could refine that scordite into trit and pyrite worth roughly 30.14.

If you didn't have all of those perfect skills and implants, you'd probably lose money by reprocessing at the moment. This is also ignoring any trading costs, so the spread is worse if you try to buy the scordite and resell the minerals. All in all, the amount you are leaving on the table by not reprocessing high sec minerals is fairly small.

Also, if you want, you can compress the scordite (almost no skill required, no implants, just a POS or a corp with a POS) and get similar bump in sales price.


Awesome ty very helpful :)


- Refining ore in high sec is pretty pointless and not worth the skill training/implants after the large high sec refining nerf or is such a small amount more ISK is not worth the bother.

- So gas harvesting in high sec is pointless to train.

- Is not worth putting up a high sec pos just for a very small bonus in refining

This seems similar to what I have been finding with bits of info searching.

Thanks :)

So last question then is do you think training ice harvesting and mining ice in high sec is worth it over mining ore? Would refining ICE or selling raw ice make more money?

Cheers for the info is appreciated. :)
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#8 - 2015-01-03 00:03:04 UTC
If you want to get a little more profit out of ore, consider compressing instead of refining or selling the raw ore. No additional skills required, only a small POS (which can be offline most of the time until you need it).
TRONEON
GAME GRID
#9 - 2015-01-03 00:05:02 UTC
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
If you want to get a little more profit out of ore, consider compressing instead of refining or selling the raw ore. No additional skills required, only a small POS (which can be offline most of the time until you need it).


How does compressing make you more money than selling the ore or refining? That seems a little backwards.
Paranoid Loyd
#10 - 2015-01-03 00:07:39 UTC
TRONEON wrote:
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
If you want to get a little more profit out of ore, consider compressing instead of refining or selling the raw ore. No additional skills required, only a small POS (which can be offline most of the time until you need it).


How does compressing make you more money than selling the ore or refining? That seems a little backwards.

If you have to move it a vast distance, being able to make one trip instead of 10 makes it more valuable.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
TRONEON
GAME GRID
#11 - 2015-01-03 00:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TRONEON
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
TRONEON wrote:
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
If you want to get a little more profit out of ore, consider compressing instead of refining or selling the raw ore. No additional skills required, only a small POS (which can be offline most of the time until you need it).


How does compressing make you more money than selling the ore or refining? That seems a little backwards.

If you have to move it a vast distance, being able to make one trip instead of 10 makes it more valuable.


Moving it not that much of an issue for me, not worth a pos for compression.

Seems like best bet is just to mine ore / sell ore, repeat and rinse. Anything else does not seem worth it from what I am being told. Seems a little weird to have stuff in the game not worth doing but ok...il go with it.

So now it just comes down to ore VS ice and if better to sell ice raw or refine it.
Paranoid Loyd
#12 - 2015-01-03 00:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the buyer. If I manufacture super caps in Null Sec and I get my minerals from Jita, it will take far less trips to move the minerals in compressed ore form, from High Sec to Null Sec, spending less time moving the minerals means they are more valuable.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-01-03 09:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
TRONEON wrote:
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
If you want to get a little more profit out of ore, consider compressing instead of refining or selling the raw ore. No additional skills required, only a small POS (which can be offline most of the time until you need it).


How does compressing make you more money than selling the ore or refining? That seems a little backwards.


Not compressing it instead of selling. Compressing then selling. Compressed ore usually (not always) sells for more than the uncompressed ore. It sometimes sells for more than the best minerals you can get from the ore in highsec (not always)

If you want the max income possible, you need to check after mining whether to sell the ore, compress the ore then sell it or refine then sell. If that's too much work, then just sell the ore as-is. Other people will be happy to buy it, refine/compress and sell the result for some profit.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#14 - 2015-01-03 17:15:04 UTC
TRONEON wrote:
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
If you want to get a little more profit out of ore, consider compressing instead of refining or selling the raw ore. No additional skills required, only a small POS (which can be offline most of the time until you need it).


How does compressing make you more money than selling the ore or refining? That seems a little backwards.


High sec gas sites have types of gas that don't sell for that much ISK. I wouldn't bother with those.

Aside from Ice mining being particularly boring you will probably find you will make more ISK from mining Veldspar.

Post the industrial changes selling ore in compressed form is the way to go. It's very easy to transport - you can get a billion ISK worth in mineral value in a Mastodon. If selling in high sec just work out the maximum high sec refining mineral yield(POS & refining array.) using prices from Jita - typically a little over the maximum buy order prices there. If possible have the compressed ore on a hub trade route system - it doesn't have to be at a hub - and leave the responsibility for haulage up to the buyer.

Small POS and compression array only needs to be onlined for an hour at a time every so often. So costs to do this are extremely minimal. Others have said it's not worth refining in high sec at a POS & refining array. This is not true. If you need minerals for something - manufacturing or whatever - it is economically viable to do your refining at a POS array. Every bit helps otherwise why would people train skills or fit hardwirings to get additional percentages whether for combat or whatever.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Senakawa Skor
Opulence Depths Industries
#15 - 2015-01-03 17:50:19 UTC
For comparing ice vs asteroid mining, I'd look to a piece of software called Isk per hour (IPH). It depends on your skills, ship, etc.

So, plugging in some numbers, using a max skilled retriever with a strip miner 2 and t2 crystals, t2 mining upgrades, no fleet boosts, no implants, and not considering hauling time, you'll make around 13.5M isk per hour mining scordite, best return right now for high-sec ores.

Running similar numbers for white glaze (high sec ice) with the same retriever max skills, ice harvester 2, t2 upgrades, no implants or boosts, and you get around 20M isk per hour mining ice.

So ice is a bit higher return at the max levels. It also takes more skill training, so it may not be higher for you *yet*. Again, this is why I suggest playing with that tool. Also, ice is a little more hassle. It appears in a belt 4 hours after the belt is mined out, but the high sec ice belts are mined out quickly. The asteroid belts are always around. So, you'll spend time moving between systems with ice, looking for a good belt. This could lose you time and thus returns. You could alternatively hang out in one system, mine scordite until ice shows up, then switch and mine ice. A good way to do these switches, since you'll need different fits, is to use a 'mobile depot', which serves as a fitting system that you can use without docking up, saving you a little time.
TRONEON
GAME GRID
#16 - 2015-01-03 20:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: TRONEON
Awesome thanks for the info, looks like ice mining is more profitable but something to aim for longer term and more skill investment.

Seems though some people think refining / compressing and having a high sec pos is worth it and others don't. I keep finding lots of people telling me refining is pointless now since the nerfs and better to not waste time with a pos for compressing, just sell the ore and keep mining.

I find this strange because that would make 90% of the processing / mining skills pointless to train so why have them in the game?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-01-03 21:29:27 UTC
They're far from pointless. Ore has to be refined, minerals don't appear out of nowhere. If no one refined, then there would be no minerals, so no manufacturing, etc

I would wager that many of those people telling you refining is worthless haven't actually done the calculations (or have low skills).
Whether *you* chose to refine , compress or sell the ore as-is depends on how much work you're willing to do and how much ISK you're willing to pass up.
If you want the best possible return on your mining, then you'll train the skills, possibly get a POS and work out whether, for a particular ore on a particular day, it's better to refine, compress or just sell.
If that's too much work, sell the ore plain, and someone else will do the maths, buy your ore and get the ISK from refining/compressing (I do that sometimes)
Paranoid Loyd
#18 - 2015-01-03 22:21:59 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
I would wager that many of those people telling you refining is worthless haven't actually done the calculations (or have low skills).
It's also not outside the realm of possibility they are the ones refining/compressing the ore so they are trying to get you to sell instead of refine/compress.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Velicitia
XS Tech
#19 - 2015-01-03 23:18:35 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
I would wager that many of those people telling you refining is worthless haven't actually done the calculations (or have low skills).
It's also not outside the realm of possibility they are the ones refining/compressing the ore so they are trying to get you to sell instead of refine/compress.



This.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-01-03 23:24:40 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
I would wager that many of those people telling you refining is worthless haven't actually done the calculations (or have low skills).
It's also not outside the realm of possibility they are the ones refining/compressing the ore so they are trying to get you to sell instead of refine/compress.


In other news, always consider possible ulterior motives when people tell you want to do. Big smile
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