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Warfare & Tactics

 
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AC's 125 vs 150
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Rifter PiIot
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-01-02 04:55:27 UTC
So I have read in a few places that as far as small auto canons go, 125s actually out dps 150s because of more critical hits via the higher rate of fire and tracking.

Just looking for insight on whether or not this is the case.

Thanks in advance community!

The Rifter is a very powerful combat frigate and can easily tackle the best frigates out there.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-01-02 05:46:03 UTC
depends entirely on how you're flying.

If you're keeping your transversal velocity within the limits of your 150mm's tracking you will do more dps than 125s. If you're just hitting orbit at 500 and turning on your guns then maybe 125s will be a better idea.

Art of Explosions
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2015-01-02 07:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Understanding Small Turrets

I wrote:
There are four aspects of fitting a ship:

- Tank: armor or shield
- Gank: weapons, damage mods, and damage application mods
- Speed: microwarpdrives and afterburners
- Utility and Electronic Warfare: capacitor boosters and warp scramblers respectively

Generally, you can only optimally fit a ship for 2.5 of the above because they are all competing for same CPU, Powergrid, and (in some setups) capacitor power.

Looking at the stats of one aspect (for example; "Gank") without considering the other aspects (both in terms of fitting and tactics) will simply result in poor fitting decisions that won't win you any battles.



Allow me to illustrate:

[Rifter, 200mm setup]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I


... VERSUS...

[Rifter, 125mm setup ]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I


Stats (with level 5 skills applied):

DPS: ~135 damage per second (200 setup) vs. 145 dps (125 setup)
Projectile Weapon Range: 800 meter optimal + 10,000 meter falloff (200 setup) vs. 600m optimal + 8,500m falloff
Projectile Weapon Tracking: 0.39 (200 setup) vs. 0.52 (125 setup)
Tank: ~3300 effective hitpoints and reps ~80 hp per second (200 setup) vs. ~3000 ehp and ~65 hp/sec
Speed: Equal at ~3000 meters per second


Which is the winner here?

The 200mm setup wins in range and tank... but the 125mm setup wins in terms of raw and applied damage per second (due to higher tracking and the extra CPU to fit a damage mod).

The 200 setup could try to use its superior range to mitigate the damage of the 125 setup... but if the 125 setup was able to get close enough (either through fancy flying or a proper warp in) then it could orbit/keep close and use superior tracking and damage to grind down the 200 setup.

How did you Veterans start?
Arla Sarain
#4 - 2015-01-02 17:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Ignoring all the numbers above (which are not wrong)

From practice I can tell you 125mm suck. In general small ACs need a Falloff bonused hull or they get wrecked by Null loaded Blasters.

The issue with 125mm is that they have little DPS without a Gyrostab, poor range and the tracking isn't enough to compensate. Angular speed is relative, andyou could, for appropriate reasons, expect your enemy to orbit you when in brawl range - you'd think that with you being webbed and him being webbed which cuts your speeds by more than double that would trash all attempts at "sig tanking" or tracking tanking. Not really - your relative speeds and angular speeds are added you get around 1000m/s relative transversals between 2 targets orbiting each other and their inertias typically push them about 1.5km-2km apart. So the angular speeds are usually around 0.5 to 0.6 rad/s.

TL;DR 125mm don't get enough tracking for the range they would normally expect to operate in, and the typical 50% falloff bonus is not going to take them far enough to compete with other guns. Additionally, bad DPS.

Source: flew a bunch of 125mm Slashers - not enough tracking to DPS anything at "500 orbit" and anything further makes you a lot easier to hit.

Where electrons have their use in brawling as blasters have naturally good DPS, 125mm are only good for sticking on stilettos and 1v1ing light drones.