Player Features and Ideas Discussion

As most of you should know by now CCP is doing the module balancing Tiericide. And part of this is the removal of meta4 mods of all types. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-modules-round-two
Not to insult anyone's intelligence, but some newer players might not know that many meta4 mods have better stats, as in lower fitting cost (less CPU, CAP, PG, OR less negative effect) than the same type of Tech2 mod. Now all this time we had a choice with these better meta4 mods or the T2 in the same class. Now we will not and the inferior T2 mods are not getting buffed to compensate for the loss of the better meta4s.

I propose that in the cases where the departing meta4 has an edge over the Tech2 mod that edge is transferred to the T2 mod.
Tech 2 already takes more damage from Over Heating, cost more ISK and SP, and is skill intensive and expensive to make.
These facts are the balance to making all the T2 mods as good as the departing "superior" M4 mods.

And for the tired old 'that is a Power Creep' mantra how can that be if the stats have been in the game for ever? Just now there is no choice as the option of fitting the better meta4 mods will not be there any longer. And many of the T2 mods are already better than the same meta4. This would actually rationalize this state of affairs. Tech2 is having had to train skills to lvl5 to use and in the case where meta4 is better was confusing and inconsistent given that many T2 mods are the best choice over meta4.

I think we as players should have the privilege to keep these better m4 stats by training the skills for T2 and all that goes with Tech 2(increased damage from Over Heating, cost in ISK and SP, and the fact that they are skill intensive and expensive to make) modules.
These fitting changes are going to effect all the players in this game. Not just X ship or type of X play. If you PVP or PVE. Miner, ganker, Titan pilot and new player in a T1 frig will know how life is with out the better meta4 mods. And the thing of it is...half or more T2 mods are the better fit over m4. CCP balance this the right way and allow us to keep all our fits as they are please with improved Tech2 where the m4 was a better fit.

Not sure how or why I even have to implore the Balance Experts to keep the same fitting options I have had for 4 years, but I am and do. I do not believe that given the absence of competing meta4 mods some of the T2 has to suck as badly as it does in some cases. Nor do I think that met4 was OP or that transferring the better stats to T2 will break the game some how. And forcing us to use "Faction or better to have the same fit" we have had for our entire time playing EVE is not right or balanced.
Thank you for reading
Just my 0.02 ISK

So you are only focused on meta 4 and meta 5 difference?
I think CCP should firstly look at the whole meta line (t1 cosmos faction dead space officer), then we could keep this discussion ongoing. We have same issue with abc x-types vs. officer

Akemon Numon "Faction or better to have the same fit"

^This is more of the Half Baked Balance I have come to expect from ccp. Meaningless meta progressions, stats all over the place in no order.
And a general vibe from these 'Balance Experts' of people that don't even play the game they are modding.

Kusum Fawn

Its sad that the majority of issues with modules are not going to be addressed, its almost like CCP doesnt know what the actual problems even are.

1. Inconsistent grouping names
- the module has several different attributes that are used for sorting, In order these are name, group, catagory, size, slot, volume, meta and tech. Odd choices have been made in how these are displayed, and what things are called/grouped.
EX -"50mm Reinforced Nanofiber Plates I" are group named "Armor reinforcer" while "Energized EM membrane" are "Armor Plating Energized" . "Magnetic Field Stabilizer I" has a blueprint under the name "Fast Loader" while the group name is Magnetic Field Stabilizer, Gyrostabilizers also have this problem. Ballistic control units and Heat sinks are under their respective named categories.

2. unfinished module and ammunition sizing
-Tracking computers, sensor disruptors sensor boosters are all small sized, why? they fit on every size ship, stasis webs , armor plates, cargo scanners are unsized completely. its a half built system but you arent fixing that. why?

3. inconsistent module m/3
Limited light ion blaster I is 25m/3 , Limited light Neutron Blaster I is 20 m/3
Limited Ion Blaster (medium) is 10m/3 , Limited Neutron Blaster is 10 m/3
Heavy Ion blaster I (medium) is 10 m/3 , Heavy Neutron Blaster I is 25m/3
This is wildly inconsistent.

4. inconsistent meta changes for all weapon/module types.
in many cases there is a clear meta progression 0 is worst in all respects, and 4 is best in all respects, matching or better then t2. this also means that there is never any reason to fit meta 0-3 if 4 is available. in many cases there is a fitting choice between 3 and 4 that caused 3 to get fit instead of 4. and similar choices for meta 4 and tech 2 items. However the changes proposed and the ones implemented (as noted by another poster in this thread) there are now fewer fitting choices and far less variation of fitting options. Makuth light missile launchers (meta 3) had a lower cpu then the 'arbolast' meta 4 launcher and thus some fits used makuth and some used arbolast.

actual fixes to your system would work better then dumbing down parts of it that you don't understand because it isn't completed to begin with."

There are so many things wrong with the wildly disorganized module groups. High Metas that are total crap like the Gallente (Mining Laser Meta 8. It is little better than meta 0!
Gallente Mining Laser CPU 59 Mining Amount 40m3 Meta 8
Miner 1 CPU 60 Mining Amount 40m3 Meta 0} Akemon Numon

Completely misleading descriptors like the Adaptive Nano Plating: " It has the ability to instantly adapt to any attack." It don't adapt to JACK, it's just a passive resist mod with fixed stats. Unlike the Reactive Armor Hardener that actually reacts to armor layer damage by shifting between resistances over time.

Some of the Faction mods are no better than the T2 for vast amounts of ISK and LPs.

And more, but the Original Poster's concerns are T2 and Death Roe meta4 mods. And I agree the time to fix all these issues is with this module balancing Tiericide. The fact that half the T2 is not as good as the Meta4 THAT we have been fitting our ships SINCE Before there WERE T2 mods, the meta4 came before T2 in the game.
The T2 mods should have the better stats. This is Called BALANCE CCP take something away, give something back! Or it just becomes the game of Nerf Online.
PS: Making more Faction mods to make up for DXing meta4 is telling us just how badly this project is going.

This basis for an idea is a lost cause sadly. In many years of the meta whine threads I and others premise that you should run meta gear with t2 if not higher skills fell on deaf ears. Some people said this not good enough and since every other game make finding better gear easier eve should follow suit. At some point ccp listened to these people.


So now meta will be gimped in that it loses what made it good as a good mod loses 1 or several bonuses to share among other meta and t2 will at some be "the best" and the art and science that was theory crafting in eve will lose some importance. Sad really....I like my theory crafitng as a way to take the game away from the game. fitting tools on puters or neocom on my apple devices...lots of nice diversions I had here.

Try this Make dropped mods meta0 (former meta1-4) in the different fitting flavors
Ample
Scoped
Restrained
Enduring

And make Tech1 the new meta1 with a slightly better over all stats or just a combo of 2 of the lower mods enhanced stats.
That would have the advantage of making T1 manufacturing useful again once the massive inventory was worked off.

Not perfect, but better

And crown T2 with the same stats as now or best M4 current stats.

So something like this:

Meta 0 : is dropped mods in the different fitting flavors
Ample
Scoped
Restrained
Enduring
Each one has an edge over the others in one stat (CPU,PG,CAP,or CYCLE TIME).

Meta 1 is also Tech 1 player made. Have a combo of 2 of the lower mods enhanced stats.

Meta2 is Tech2 with the same stats as now or best M4 current stats. Or all 4 of the meta 0 enhanced stats.

Then Story Line/COSMOS mods take Meta 3. Faction Meta4 on up the chain no gaps and no BS, simple easy to understand.
That's why this is prolly the lest likely direction CCP will go.

Fine tuning would of course be required in some cases But for 15 min of work makes more sense that what ccp has been doing for the last year in Mod Re balance and these stupid biennial name changes.

This could actually work! Every Mod would have some value to the fitting needs of all the players. Low skilled and High SP vets alike. Make it worth the time for new players to MAKE T1 mods and not take a loss. and the flexibility in fitting needed for tight fits.
Take a look ccp.

Hello CCP Devs

Can I please get a response here as to the why T2 are not getting buffed to the same stats as the (better) Meta4s your removing from the game? This is going to be clear fitting issue. Why so silent about it?

Lets skip for the moment all these wonderful side effects of your efforts to date.
The re-naming, re-re-naming, and on and on.
The crap Faction/SL/COSMOS mods not making any sense, Faction mods with the same stats as T2 of the same type (Gallente Mining Laser being total crap compared to Miner2).
Adding even more faction mods to make up for the meta mods getting the axe.
The fact that T2 Invention and production is a complete mess unless you own a T2 BPO.
And an ORE SCANNER that is useless with out doing your own math equation just so see how much ore will fit in your holds.

Make a statement regarding your decision not to buff the T2 mods to the better meta4 stats in those cases. I can not believe this is an oversight on your part. Show us you at lest know this is going to be major fitting Nerf to the game. Or you either just don't care or think we are to stupid to see what's going on here.

Honestly I'd rather all the named mods do ONE thing very well at the expense of others while the T2 mods get 75% of all the good stats of each mod.

Kinda why Nano fibers are used more than I-stabs and overdrives.

I think your main issue here is that you made the "removal of meta 4 equal mods" up in your confused little head.

The module groups they are changing in the dev blog don't have the kind of meta 4 modules you are concerned about, all their meta 4 mods already are simply worse than T2.

King Fu Hostile "I think your main issue here is that you made the "removal of meta 4 equal mods" up in your confused little head.

The module groups they are changing in the dev blog don't have the kind of meta 4 modules you are concerned about, all their meta 4 mods already are simply worse than T2."

Siobhan MacLeary "I'm looking back at both the upcoming and previous module rebalance and while it looks like some modules are being removed and having their meta level changed, based on stats there's still a "Meta 4" module.

Top marks for really caring about player choice, but I think you should pay more attention to the actual content of devblogs as well as CCP's recent design mantra of meaningful choice. "

Last 2 posters have missed the OP's very basic premise or are trolling. It is very clear that some Meta4 mods are clearly superior to the corresponding T2 equivalent. Those mods are being taken out of the game. As in GONE.

Akemon Numon "Example the Power Relays: 'the Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I' uses less CPU than the T2, 3 TF and the T2 8TF and has the same cap recharge bonus. And the T2 is staying at 8 TF after the changes? This is a clear fitting Nerf. "

That's a hefty nerf to a frig size ship I don't care how you want to try to gloss over the change. Even larger min/maxed fits WILL HAVE TO CHANGE. And none of the new Power Relays can match the STATS. This is going to be the case for EVERY meta4 that is better than the T2. And his point, as I understand it the T2s are not getting buffed to match the better m4s.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-modules-round-two

Personally looking through the numbers I'm quite happy with most of what I see. The faction Overdrive injectors however just don't appeal to me. I would rather have the Cargo Capacity penalty at -15%-20% and get 0.5 more velocity on either the republic or domination to give us a reason to pick one or the other.

The Republic and Domination Nanofibers are also the exact same mod with a different name. Changing one to -15.75 Inertia Modifier and 10.0 Velocity Modifier would give us a choice between the two.