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Incursions/ "New to" ships
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Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-13 12:50:30 UTC
Hello folks, looking for your sound advice here.

I am looking to get into incursions and i really don't know which ship to fly.
Currently my armor skills/gunnery with lasers are better than shields and projectiles.
Gunnery support skills are maxed(apart from surgical strike 5).

I can use t2 armor/lasers but only t2 shields and t1 projectiles.

Can fly maelstrom - shield side(minnie bs 3)
Can choose from navy geddon, abaddon(amarr bs5) and paladin(marauders 5)

I know ehp and resists/faction web + dps are the boss but i don't know which ship to choose to 'ease' me in.

Battleclinic fits are either for pro's or unrated, i've tried :(

Which ship do you think will be better to start off with to say...do vanguards ?

Thanks a lot.

/babysteps please :)

Kiteo Hatto
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#2 - 2011-09-13 13:05:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Linda Shadowborn
Abaddon

Low
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Mid
Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

High
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II

Rig
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II


Just a quick check around various armour tanker threads gave me something like that. Problem with that ship is the cap which is why the rigs are the way they are. Besides with the native resistance bonus you are quite fine for vanguards. Minimum needed pimping (those webs and enams really are needed). Myself i jumped into the loki and basi straight off so.. im not too experienced with non faction battleships (my bs is a nightmare myself and i loooove it :) ).

EDIT: in general stick to T2 guns when you can, for several reasons. 1, people tend to grab ships with t2 guns over t1 for obvious reasons and the various t2 ammo really can make a ship shine. Scorch and barrage is so sweet for those rare ships you need to pop at range and the extra damage from just being t2 with the skills is handy :)

Myself i stick to faction or t2 ammo at all times, i know many just use t1 but frankly incursions are such money makers (if your logis dont DC) that.. well why not :)

Of course if you wish to shell out the paladin is a sweeeet ship
Low
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Mid
Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

High
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Rig
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Energy Collision Accelerator II
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#3 - 2011-09-13 13:12:07 UTC
Note: no those arent the optimal fits by a longshot, but its a good starting platform for you to work on. Im not super experienced in armour tankers in incursions since i mostly fly shields (and armor loki). But it should give you a decent stepping off stone. Probably overtanked but if you are new and in public fleets, i would keep it that way.

As you get into more seasoned fleets that fly a lot with eachother you can probably take off tank. But for public, i would always overtank just a bit.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-13 14:02:15 UTC
Thanks a lot Linda :)
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-09-13 14:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rellik B00n
also worth considering this fit

sniper baddon

i changed it slightly to:

[Abaddon, sniper]
Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L

Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

this gives you over an hour on your capacitor and well over 100km range. DPS isnt great at around 500, but liveable for the range benefits.

I figured this would let you sit well out of trouble and get used to the incursions before you pile in at close range.

I must admit im personally from the 'DPS is all the tank I need' school of fitting but I thought this might give you another option to work with.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#6 - 2011-09-13 14:19:38 UTC
Aren't there more shield fleets these days?

Just asking coz I can do either quite well, but thought shields were the meta.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-09-13 15:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadeyoo
There are more shield fleets around, but that does not mean they are better generally. While they may have more spare slots for damage mods, they tend to have worse tracking and less webs for obvious reasons.

For shield fittings consult: http://incursions.nexsoft.de/
For armor fittings consult: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=IncursionArmorWorkshop

Turret ships are better than missile boats.
Ideal turrets are lasers and projectiles, blasters only useful for NCOs, and even then only if it's large T2 blasters.
Otherwise medium turrets are superior to large turrets (due to 3.2x higher signature resolution).

The ideal incursion ships are Legion and Loki for T3, Mach and Nightmare for pirate faction BS, Apoc/Tempest/Geddon come next for normal battleships (their navy counterparts are obviously infinitely more useful), Abaddon really comes at the end of the line because it's cap transfer dependent and you need to boost range using tracking computers (not gaining tracking speed) - but you can also shield fit it pretty decently.

This list is not exclusive, just some of the most popular ships that perform best generally.

So pick anything you like from the above and you're good to go.
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-13 16:20:42 UTC
Long story short, you need 4 mid slot to be able to effectively tank your ship for incursions. This means that almost every armor tanking ship from BC size and up can effectively tank.

Here are some suggestions:
VG's - Invuln II x2, Photon II x1 and Faction Web

Assaults and HQ's - Invuln II x2, Photon x 1 LSE II (or Afterburner)

You can use your 3 rig slots like this:
Core defense Anti-EM (T1 for cheap, or save up for T2...30M isn't that much after a few sites)
Core Defense Field Extender (same as above)
for lasers or High cap weapons use the appropriate cap reducing rig, or fit another Field extender.

Honestly, fitting for incursions now-a-days is a very simple matter. Start w/ as many guns as you can, fit 3x weapon multipliers (heat sinks in your case), and a damage control...any other lows get tracking enhancers, and maybe a cap mod.

After that, fill the mids and rigs until your resists are at least 70 across the board, and aim for at least 90k EHP (for BS...you can get by with less for BC's and t2/faction cruisers). There is probably some who would say more or less, but its a good number to aim for.

Last bit of advice...figure out what ship you want to fly, and make it work! I had a navy mega that was nice, and a Rokh that was also superb...I even worked with an astarte, which was better than you'd think on VG's. Mail me if you need more advice!

Ced

Cedric
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-09-13 19:19:09 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
Long story short, you need 4 mid slot to be able to effectively tank your ship for incursions. This means that almost every armor tanking ship from BC size and up can effectively tank.


Did you know that Armor tanking mods are all low slot?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-09-14 00:05:17 UTC
I've looked through the fits and discussed with others in-game and i've settled on paladin :). Thanks a lot guys.
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#11 - 2011-09-14 03:23:51 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
I've looked through the fits and discussed with others in-game and i've settled on paladin :). Thanks a lot guys.


Good call :) Paladins are nice :) Happy flying in it :D
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-09-14 18:48:26 UTC
Kadeyoo wrote:
Dr Cedric wrote:
Long story short, you need 4 mid slot to be able to effectively tank your ship for incursions. This means that almost every armor tanking ship from BC size and up can effectively tank.


Did you know that Armor tanking mods are all low slot?



Was talking Shield Tanking, not armor taking. IIRC, the OP was asking about shield tanks for Incursions

Cedric
Zalahar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-09-14 20:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Zalahar
You make the most ISK running assaults VGs in small groups with armor fleets, primarily legions/zealots with guardians and a few supporting lokis.
grumpyguts1
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-09-14 21:56:23 UTC
If you have t2 shields and t2 lasers and they happen to be t2 mega pulses, why not look at a Nightmare, caldari BS to 4 is fairly quick.
Sturmwolke
#15 - 2011-09-15 01:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Rellik B00n wrote:

[Abaddon, sniper]
Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L

Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

this gives you over an hour on your capacitor and well over 100km range. DPS isnt great at around 500, but liveable for the range benefits.
I figured this would let you sit well out of trouble and get used to the incursions before you pile in at close range.
I must admit im personally from the 'DPS is all the tank I need' school of fitting but I thought this might give you another option to work with.


There's a few problems with that fit :

1) Unless you like transporting battleships across New Eden chasing after incursions, always fit for the lowest denominator (with an eye towards the higher denominator). The lowest denominator for incursions are ships fitted for vanguards. In the above case, the Abaddon's rigs are not independent of the scenarios. Good incursion fits trades off specialized fits in favour of flexibility.

2) No, it doesn't give you an hour of cap. You have at most 6-8mins continuous fire. Cap boosters for incursions is not best practice for logistical reasons. Vanguards will almost be impossible to run smoothly if you add the hassles of topping up cap charges. Assaults and higher can typically take 10-15mins (or higher) to complete. You'll run out of cap boosters well before, and with no cap conservation measures whatsoever you become a logistic liability. Warping out to stock up isn't an option.

3) Massive resist holes for Therm, Kin and Exp. Alphas from Assaults will be dangerous and alphas from HQ will be deadly (if you survive). It's a glasscannon. A 2 slot tank will never work unless you have a deathwish.

4) This really ties into 3) above as the choice of gun size influences the tank and vice-versa. Tachyons will never fit well on the Abbadon until you sacrifice both cap and tank. The incursion scenario is unique that Sansha snipers almost never orbit > 150km, with typical sniper engagements between 120-140km. The range advantage from the tachyons is almost negligible. Ultimately, there is little advantage to be gained by these sacrifices. Sure it looks good on paper that you eked out an extra 8-20% dps (over Mega Beams), but you're throwing practicality out of the window.

Incursions ≠ missions.
You can easily min-max your setups for missions (glasscannon et all), but for incursions generally, swiss-army knife fits are best.
beor oranes
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2011-09-15 10:16:28 UTC
grumpyguts1 wrote:
If you have t2 shields and t2 lasers and they happen to be t2 mega pulses, why not look at a Nightmare, caldari BS to 4 is fairly quick.


This ^^ for sure, plus its a pretty ship. Plus I have always found it easier to get a fleet being shield fitted.
n00n3r
Malicious Destruction
#17 - 2011-09-15 22:02:58 UTC
you have amar BS 5, can use T2 lasers, and can fit T2 shield tank. for a fairly quick amount of training, you could get caldari battleship 4 and fly a very good nightmare, which seems to be the best all around incursion boat out there.

of course, if you decide you want to completely max the nightmare damage, you're going to want to invest in caldari BS 5. It all depends on how important that 5% damage is to you.

Interested in Incursions? Check out our recruitment thread!  https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12104&find=unread
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-09-15 22:49:15 UTC
sanity check: assuming i get fresh into a nightmare with most relevant skills only at 3 or 4, is it a good idea to start running incursions or will i be a hindrance and/or get blown up? (i CAN run cap stable at ~70k buffer with afterburner on)

I should buy an Ishtar.
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#19 - 2011-09-15 23:58:32 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
sanity check: assuming i get fresh into a nightmare with most relevant skills only at 3 or 4, is it a good idea to start running incursions or will i be a hindrance and/or get blown up? (i CAN run cap stable at ~70k buffer with afterburner on)


If you have t2 guns, go for it. Yes i know a lot of people fly with t1 guns but me personally i cry when i see it :)
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-09-16 01:44:05 UTC
Im not looking for a Nightmare really, just don't like it's cap and looks :)(my shield skills are mostly at 4, so they are kinda bleh). I've got a paladin and got abaddon as my incursion training wheels.

I went with Linda's fits and boy abaddon sure can tank, 100k ehp with 82/77/76/85 resists and a decent cap life.

There are far more shield fleets but i just feel better armor tanking, getting into legion in 29 days.
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