Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It seems to me that it is 'politically correct' to agree with this thread. But in reality it is just the opposite.

People who PvP are competitive. Having a permanent record is an important part of that competition and will drive people to undock and create PvP content, not avoid it. You just have to be in a gank when a pod is caught and everyone is screaming to hold the pod while they get on the KM. Very rarely (if ever) will someone choose not to get on the mail because it is pointless KB padding.

Despite that, I've been in several PvP corporation and I've yet to find one that takes KB stats to the degree that the OP described. That is not saying they don't exist. But who's to say it is irrelevant, unfair or downright wrong? This is supposed to be a sandbox game and if a particularly corp is so competitive that they insist a certain KB efficiency must be maintained and you don't hold the same values, then that corp isn't the one for you.

If you don't give a toss about KB stats, join a corp that doesn't give a toss about KB stats, there are plenty around and many are damn fine corps too. But accept that you are going to lose some howlers.

If you want to join a corp that never loses a battle, is feared wherever it goes. Then you are going to have to pull your finger out and measure up. Not expect to be able to hide your losses and just hang onto the leet members shirt tails and be pulled along.

Examining a KM to see if a shed load of carriers are likely to drop on you or local is going to spike by 10 times your fleet, isn't lost content that is going to harm this game.

I support removing it as well. I'd give my reasons as to why, but they have already been posted 20-30 times.

I really dislike the idea of holding people's hands to make them grow a pair, or have more fun, in a sandbox game. We're all (mostly) adults, FFS!!!

I also dislike the idea of consequence-free PVP in EVE.


Once you have enough ISK that losing a few hundred mil - or more - doesn't really matter, the only real consequence of PVP is the public, permanent log of your space battles.

It's up to you to decide how much you care. If you let others decide for you, that's your problem.

Once you decide how much you care, that's the treshold that separates yolo PVP (which is certainly fun) from 'shaking hands' PVP, which is something awesome that I'd hate to see removed from EVE.


Also, Carmen, that Mach killmail says alot about you: that you're cool, fun, sociable, and... probably not the best fit for PL . You're certainly not ashamed of it, so why should anyone be ashamed of their own lossmails?

That's actually perfectly acceptable to me.

If you put in the effort to scratch out your own map on paper or in a spreadsheet that's great. That work should be rewarded. A shared corp spreadsheet in Google Docs is borderline but unavoidable. A browser app that's accessible in-game, allows sharing data among a majority of Eve players with little effort and cross references with other web sites while basing its database on a static export from the game itself is too easy.

The real problem here is that computers aren't random, they're pseudo-random. It's possible that CCP made Cosmic sigs repeat the way they do by accident while trying to create a system of apparently "random" appearances to force people to scan for them. It's likely that static wormholes are semi intentional, as truly random wormholes could mean players getting stuck in a system in WH space for weeks or months with no way out appearing.

The problem with both of these is that players have had enough time to pull them all the way to the other end of the spectrum and make them essentially non random. The external mapping tools do this.

I think what needs to happen is CCP needs to rebalance of the randomness of these things, taking into account the fact that mapping tools and databases exist and will be used.

Make things less predictable.


Side note: This problem is endemic in MMORPGs. In Everquest, NPC mobs had to respawn, because everyone deserved a chance to kill or interact with them. They couldn't respawn immediately because that would break immersion and permit easy farming for loot that didn't always drop. The game engine didn't permit truly random locations and spawn timing had to be semi-random otherwise it was too unlikely that players would get a chance to fight the mob. The problem was having to simulate conditions that would present an appearance of chance encounters with players while actually making them happen regularly. Therefore most mobs players really wanted to kill would at most spawn at semi-random intervals and potentially wander around a small area. This led in some instances to people lining up in game for hours or days at a time to kill a mob. It was much more like a visit to the DMV than a game. Fortunately, CCP likely has fewer technical limitations.

I don't understand why you couldn't have fun and a green killboard.

In fact, most people actually like winning more than losing.

It's always something else's fault........

But seriously. No matter what silly changes are suggested, in the misguided thought it will change certain player mentality, it will not. Some player will always find a reason NOT to risk their ship.

This isn't the first thing people have blamed, nor will it be the last. But it will not change the player.

Very true, I was mainly bemoaning the fact these people exist in the game. Worse than miners complaining about ganks.

So, wait, this thread is here because someone got kicked from a corp because they lost pitifully low-valued ship compared to the total tally on the KB per month?

Guys, grow a pair, stop blaming KB's because of what people do and find a new home.

You can't stop the signal!

Ban anything and everything... change APIs and game mechanics... ppl can and will find a way to gather information to gain any kind of edge in life.

At least with how things are going now it is an advantage almost everyone can attain.

For those who care about PvP results, Kill Mail APIs are important. For those that don't, well, they don't care.
I would have to say that kill mail APIs have a basis in real history: warriors tend to record their kills. The old notches, string of ears, or painting kills on the side of one's aircraft/tank are historical.

Kill Mail APIs are important because it also makes it impossible for the "hard core" PvP to lie about their kills and, more importantly, their losses.

Otherwise: ignore kill boards.