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PCO griefing in FW. CCP confirmed intended mechanics

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IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#1 - 2011-12-17 23:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Whilst shooting WT PCOs that had just left RF the WTs swapped ownership to a neutral corp causing fleet to take sec hits and GCC for all PCOs that were destroyed. If they had been even more cunning they would have changed it to a FW corp forcing us to take standing hits as well.

CCP post in this thread now confirms intended game design, so here is the helpful guide to decreasing hostile standings and security status. Remember all you need is to get one pilot -5 and their logi chain will GCC during normal combat so these security losses do matter.

Apparently although intended mechanics this may somehow still be an exploit so until we have further confirmation use this guide at your own risk.


FW players here is how to make a hostile fleet take a standing hit, security status loss and GCC if they want to destroy your structures


1. Set up PCO and use as normal, ideally in hostile space to gain maximum attention


2. Set up an alt corp in the hostile miltia (you probably already have one or two spare anyway)


3. Wait for the eve mail saying the PCO has been reinforced


4. When the hostile fleet start shooting it at after RF ends you swap ownership to the hostile militia corp and watch them all (including logi because CCP still haven't fixed that bug) take a large standing hit, security status loss and GCC.

You can either do this early on in the fight and give them the option to disengage or try and do it last minute, the WT red star remains on the targeted item so they probably won't notice in time.


5. Rinse and repeat untill hostile players start running out of standings.


6. ????


7. Profit and laugh at CCP's complete ineptitude at game design and continued neglect for FW
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2 - 2011-12-17 23:10:50 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Whilst shooting WT PCOs that has just left RF the WTs swapped ownership to a neutral corp causing fleet to take sec hits and GCC for all PCOs that were destroyed


Hoping CCP will reply and confirm whether or not this is an exploit, it seems something that should have been spotted during testing.


If this is not an exploit and you are unable to defeat a hostile fleet you outnumber 3:1 on caps then you can feel free to troll your enemies by swapping ownership.

If this happened as you said, that sounds like an exploit to me.


Please say you petitioned CCP as well? And possibly submitted a bug report too.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#3 - 2011-12-17 23:12:09 UTC
Hilarious. Also, since CCP has thrown up their hands pretty much at all things wardec, I forsee many more sec hits in losec for this. Just accept the sec hit and kill them anyway.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-12-17 23:13:11 UTC
So? It's not like you get concorded. Just kill the CO and move on.
Endeavour Starfleet
#5 - 2011-12-17 23:16:29 UTC
Petition CCP and let them know of this exploit.

At the very least shooting at them should not get you sec hits.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#6 - 2011-12-18 00:05:20 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:

If this is not an exploit and you are unable to defeat a hostile fleet you outnumber 3:1 on caps then you can feel free to troll your enemies by swapping ownership.


Even better, see if you can ninja it so they kill their own POCO. (Never worked with the xfer ownership interface, so this might not be possible)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#7 - 2011-12-18 00:14:28 UTC
Seeing as how changing corps in space/mid-fight etc is an exploit, i'd imagine this will be looked at in the same way.
K Suri
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-12-18 00:35:34 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Whilst shooting WT PCOs that has just left RF the WTs swapped ownership to a neutral corp causing fleet to take sec hits and GCC for all PCOs that were destroyed


Hoping CCP will reply and confirm whether or not this is an exploit, it seems something that should have been spotted during testing.


If this is not an exploit and you are unable to defeat a hostile fleet you outnumber 3:1 on caps then you can feel free to troll your enemies by swapping ownership.

Ya bitchin about sec hits killing **** in lowsec, are you a carebear or sumthin' or iz da big bad nasty man gettin a bad weputation bwowing stuff up?

**** me, everything is a exploit when someone takes it in the ring around here. HTFU and go rattin' when ya finished. Roll
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-18 00:40:00 UTC
Soi Mala wrote:
Seeing as how changing corps in space/mid-fight etc is an exploit, i'd imagine this will be looked at in the same way.



This isn't exactly the same thing, though. Changing corps in space/mid-flight is an exploit because you can get someone CONCORDed because of it. CONCORD does not operate in low-sec and the only penalty you have is a relatively minor sec-hit which can be repaired in less than an hour.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-12-18 00:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
Taedrin wrote:
Soi Mala wrote:
Seeing as how changing corps in space/mid-fight etc is an exploit, i'd imagine this will be looked at in the same way.



This isn't exactly the same thing, though. Changing corps in space/mid-flight is an exploit because you can get someone CONCORDed because of it. CONCORD does not operate in low-sec and the only penalty you have is a relatively minor sec-hit which can be repaired in less than an hour.


Worse yet is if they had switched it to a Mimtar militia corp we would have lost FACTION and SEC standings. Clearly and exploit.


This is clearly not working as intended.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Asthariye
Angry Mustellid
#11 - 2011-12-18 00:57:12 UTC
The problem in this particular instance (apart from it not feeling right anyway, even though it's lowsec so you don't get concorded) is that the wardec in question is a FW one, and as well as the scenario suggested by Rouge above where everyone loses faction standing as well as sec status, there is the fact that it combos rather unhelpfully with the logi faction standings loss bug (for those not aware - logi in militia who rep GCC friendlies lose faction standing as well as sec status. This is acknowledged as a bug and you get the faction standing back if you petition it within a week but it's still a complete pain in the backside).

So in this scenario, you're shooting a WT customs office, they switch ownership, fleet goes GCC, as soon as any rep or cap transfer is needed your logi goes GCC as well, and logi lose faction standing and have to petition. It's a pain and I really hope that's not working as intended.
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#12 - 2011-12-18 01:10:06 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
Soi Mala wrote:
Seeing as how changing corps in space/mid-fight etc is an exploit, i'd imagine this will be looked at in the same way.



This isn't exactly the same thing, though. Changing corps in space/mid-flight is an exploit because you can get someone CONCORDed because of it. CONCORD does not operate in low-sec and the only penalty you have is a relatively minor sec-hit which can be repaired in less than an hour.


I see what you're getting at, and tbh i wouldn't be too fussed about the small hit personally. However, everything is relative, and while it may seem like a small consequence it doesn't make it any less right/wrong. If you were able to spawn 100mil a week from some wierd loophole, It'd be an exploit, even though in most peoples eye's that would be a trivial amount.

Regardless of the sec hit, this flags the fleet, and leaves them open to attack from anyone without consequence (even though sec-hits shouldn't worry the type of people who would be passing by), and pretty much nullifies the entire point of the wardec.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#13 - 2011-12-18 01:23:30 UTC
Soi Mala wrote:
Seeing as how changing corps in space/mid-fight etc is an exploit, i'd imagine this will be looked at in the same way.



yep

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Amro One
One.
#14 - 2011-12-18 02:40:49 UTC
As long as there is a session timer its not a exploit.

It follows under the same rules as war decing people with a 1 man corp.
Then when you find a Wt well in warp you join corp the 1 man corp and bam, WT kill.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-12-18 02:52:42 UTC
K Suri wrote:
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Whilst shooting WT PCOs that has just left RF the WTs swapped ownership to a neutral corp causing fleet to take sec hits and GCC for all PCOs that were destroyed


Hoping CCP will reply and confirm whether or not this is an exploit, it seems something that should have been spotted during testing.


If this is not an exploit and you are unable to defeat a hostile fleet you outnumber 3:1 on caps then you can feel free to troll your enemies by swapping ownership.

Ya bitchin about sec hits killing **** in lowsec, are you a carebear or sumthin' or iz da big bad nasty man gettin a bad weputation bwowing stuff up?

**** me, everything is a exploit when someone takes it in the ring around here. HTFU and go rattin' when ya finished. Roll


Being able to choose when or where a hostile flag gets GCC is a big deal when fighting in low sec, it can affect any RR chains if they drag the fight to a station or gate. Their corp also might move around a lot and need to fly through high sec to reach isolated pockets, or maybe they don't want to be flashy red so they gain an advantage when fighting people in low sec with -5 and lower sec status.

There are plenty of reasons why somebody wouldn't want to take sec hits or GCC in lowsec and it doesn't make them carebears, I am guessing you don't have much experience with low sec though.
K Suri
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-12-18 04:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: K Suri
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

There are plenty of reasons why somebody wouldn't want to take sec hits or GCC in lowsec and it doesn't make them carebears, I am guessing you don't have much experience with low sec though.

Before you choose to take that "you lack of expertise" path, perhaps you need to explain why you bother with wardec at all if the intent is to pop their POCO's??

Perhaps the lack of expertise is on your part - you're applying highsec wankerism with lowsec shenanigans. It simply ain't neccessary.

GCC is temporary and sec loss is a marginal repair job. Been a "feature" of lowsec for sooooo long it's not funny. This is all a big deal over squat tbh.

EDIT: If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times. It's always an exploit when things don't go the way people want. Ya got outplayed squib. Deal with it.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-12-18 05:40:26 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

There are plenty of reasons why somebody wouldn't want to take sec hits or GCC in lowsec and it doesn't make them carebears, I am guessing you don't have much experience with low sec though.

Before you choose to take that "you lack of expertise" path, perhaps you need to explain why you bother with wardec at all if the intent is to pop their POCO's??

Perhaps the lack of expertise is on your part - you're applying highsec wankerism with lowsec shenanigans. It simply ain't neccessary.

GCC is temporary and sec loss is a marginal repair job. Been a "feature" of lowsec for sooooo long it's not funny. This is all a big deal over squat tbh.

EDIT: If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times. It's always an exploit when things don't go the way people want. Ya got outplayed squib. Deal with it.


You really are clueless, corps and alliances fighting in low sec and using war decs is fairly common. Like I mentioned there are advantages, just because you are to unimaginative or inexperienced to see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

As for this "exploit" I don't really have an opinion, I only posted to refute your terrible troll.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-12-18 12:03:33 UTC
The more and more I look at it the more and more this is a very ab-usable mechanic the way it currently exists.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#19 - 2011-12-18 13:44:18 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
The more and more I look at it the more and more this is a very ab-usable mechanic the way it currently exists.



should be perfect for matar fw players aye?
..
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#20 - 2011-12-18 13:45:24 UTC
I'll start by saying that this isn't a bug, it sounds like everything is functioning ok.

However I will raise this with the team to see if this is valid gameplay or if this is considered an exploit and report back here.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
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