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Dear CCP - Some numbers for you to look at regarding FW vs Null Sec
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Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-18 12:28:49 UTC
Dear CCP

We were having a chat in corp the other day and the topic of numbers came up

Militia

Caldari 7444
Minmitar 5387
Amarr 4576
Gallente 5730

Total 23137


Top 4 alliances

Shadow of xXDeathXx 8019
Goonswarm Federation 6928
Test Alliance Please Ignore 4746
Intrepid Crossing 3235

Total 22928

So I'll just leave these numbers for someone for CCP to comment on and to explain why FW is still ignored and after it constantly rating as something that need fixing and being mentioned by Hilmar as one of the feature fixes for Crucible, we got 1 fix to plexing which has been asked for for years...

P.S. I don't want to hear about the minnies claiming we blob them since you have more numbers!!!!
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#2 - 2011-12-18 12:35:20 UTC
The FW numbers are wrong (in order of magnitudes). I don't think real participants in FW PVP are even 10% of that, many being inactive (unsubbed), alts, spying alts, tax evaders, FW mission runners. Oh and a week long experience in FW tells me there are more Minmatar than Amarr players, data, right?
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-18 12:40:02 UTC
Schnoo wrote:
The FW numbers are wrong (in order of magnitudes). I don't think real participants in FW PVP are even 10% of that, many being inactive (unsubbed), alts, spying alts, tax evaders, FW mission runners. Oh and a week long experience in FW tells me there are more Minmatar than Amarr players, data, right?


Right - because the amount of botters in shadow of death are all real. And there aren't spies in null sec alliances. Or miners... Or people who rat/plex in some obscure systems... Or people who are in the alliance and just live in high sec...

Quote:
Oh and a week long experience in FW tells me there are more Minmatar than Amarr players


Quote:
Minmitar 5387
Amarr 4576
Generals4
#4 - 2011-12-18 12:53:49 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Dear CCP

We were having a chat in corp the other day and the topic of numbers came up

Militia

Caldari 7444
Minmitar 5387
Amarr 4576
Gallente 5730

Total 23137


Top 4 alliances

Shadow of xXDeathXx 8019
Goonswarm Federation 6928
Test Alliance Please Ignore 4746
Intrepid Crossing 3235

Total 22928

So I'll just leave these numbers for someone for CCP to comment on and to explain why FW is still ignored and after it constantly rating as something that need fixing and being mentioned by Hilmar as one of the feature fixes for Crucible, we got 1 fix to plexing which has been asked for for years...

P.S. I don't want to hear about the minnies claiming we blob them since you have more numbers!!!!


Those numbers mean exactly nothing. The caldari militia for instance gets owned by the gallente one simply because they have much much more PVE'ers, people who aren't playing, etc.

More interesting numbers would be the amount of players who have had at least 1 kill in the previous week.

Fixing FW based on useless numbers is exactly what CCP shouldn't do.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-18 13:01:13 UTC
Right - because FW isn't cyclical. Didn't Caldari push the Gallente all the way back home and then give up because they were bored???
And doesn't larger null sec alliances get beat up by smaller ones sometimes???

The point was the number of people in faction warfare compared to the top 4 alliances...
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#6 - 2011-12-18 14:59:24 UTC
The fact is FW is a fun non nullbear pvp opportunity that MANY people have tried to engage in. While you can stay in a null alliance without risk, doing so in FW is different.

CCP has NO ONE working on FW other than a tweak here or there, they have no vision, no plan, lack all inspiration and effectively redefine fail when you discuss FW.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-12-19 02:26:23 UTC
Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day???
I'm guessing no personally...
Brock Nelson
#8 - 2011-12-19 02:40:20 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day???
I'm guessing no personally...


Uhh...its the weekend dude. I don't know what planet you're from but here on Earth, most people work during the week.

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-19 02:49:55 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day???
I'm guessing no personally...


Uhh...its the weekend dude. I don't know what planet you're from but here on Earth, most people work during the week.

I believe it is midday where I am, and very early in the morning Eve time.

Now considering I said during the day (bolded that part for you to be 100% clear), that would mean TODAY (19th). When they get to work. You know, since Iceland is like coming up on 3am now.

For the purposes of this conversation, I will assume since you think it is still the weekend, you are in the US and just leave it at that since of course the whole world revolves around the US... Enough said!!!

Oh yeah, it is also the case that we NEVER see the decs pop in to say hi during the weekend or the middle of the night amirite??? Roll
Pulgy
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-12-19 03:23:55 UTC
As many have pointed out, the vast majority of those numbers are mission runners, most likely alts from alliances looking to make a quick buck.
At any given time the gallente side has no more than 70 active pvp pilots...yeah.
No range? No problem!   Join the Church of the Holy Blaster™ . A Hybrid religion.
Phizban
The Needs Of The Few
#11 - 2011-12-19 04:35:32 UTC
Pulgy wrote:
As many have pointed out, the vast majority of those numbers are mission runners, most likely alts from alliances looking to make a quick buck.
At any given time the gallente side has no more than 70 active pvp pilots...yeah.



I just want to point out that the glare coming off your oily forhead looks like a runner's sweatband.

That is all.
Brock Nelson
#12 - 2011-12-19 04:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Brock Nelson
Har Harrison wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day???
I'm guessing no personally...


Uhh...its the weekend dude. I don't know what planet you're from but here on Earth, most people work during the week.

I believe it is midday where I am, and very early in the morning Eve time.

Now considering I said during the day (bolded that part for you to be 100% clear), that would mean TODAY (19th). When they get to work. You know, since Iceland is like coming up on 3am now.

For the purposes of this conversation, I will assume since you think it is still the weekend, you are in the US and just leave it at that since of course the whole world revolves around the US... Enough said!!!

Oh yeah, it is also the case that we NEVER see the decs pop in to say hi during the weekend or the middle of the night amirite??? Roll


Oh sorry you think I'm from the US Roll

Oh sorry you think that everyone's work day starts at 3am monday morning Roll

Oh sorry you think that devs popping in on weekends to say hi is actually working Roll I mean after all, they don't play this game amirite???

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-19 05:41:02 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day???
I'm guessing no personally...


Uhh...its the weekend dude. I don't know what planet you're from but here on Earth, most people work during the week.

I believe it is midday where I am, and very early in the morning Eve time.

Now considering I said during the day (bolded that part for you to be 100% clear), that would mean TODAY (19th). When they get to work. You know, since Iceland is like coming up on 3am now.

For the purposes of this conversation, I will assume since you think it is still the weekend, you are in the US and just leave it at that since of course the whole world revolves around the US... Enough said!!!

Oh yeah, it is also the case that we NEVER see the decs pop in to say hi during the weekend or the middle of the night amirite??? Roll


Oh sorry you think I'm from the US Roll

Oh sorry you think that everyone's work day starts at 3am monday morning Roll

Oh sorry you think that devs popping in on weekends to say hi is actually working Roll I mean after all, they don't play this game amirite???


Sigh. Let me explain ONE MORE TIME for the troll...

You said it was still the weekend. That implies it is still sunday unless you are in the middle of the Atlantic... Ergo you would have to be based in the US. Otherwise it is MONDAY and it is NOT the weekend anymore, even if someone is still asleep.

I NEVER said their day starts at 3am. I said it was 3am on a WORK DAY and as such I said Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day??? See how that works??? If CCP will respond during the day is FUTURE tense - i.e. later in the day, it being the 19th (Monday!!!).

And I said that devs DO respond out of business hours - which IS working if they are representing CCP (by using their CCP accounts vs an anonymous pilot).
Brock Nelson
#14 - 2011-12-19 05:50:13 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day???
I'm guessing no personally...


Uhh...its the weekend dude. I don't know what planet you're from but here on Earth, most people work during the week.

I believe it is midday where I am, and very early in the morning Eve time.

Now considering I said during the day (bolded that part for you to be 100% clear), that would mean TODAY (19th). When they get to work. You know, since Iceland is like coming up on 3am now.

For the purposes of this conversation, I will assume since you think it is still the weekend, you are in the US and just leave it at that since of course the whole world revolves around the US... Enough said!!!

Oh yeah, it is also the case that we NEVER see the decs pop in to say hi during the weekend or the middle of the night amirite??? Roll


Oh sorry you think I'm from the US Roll

Oh sorry you think that everyone's work day starts at 3am monday morning Roll

Oh sorry you think that devs popping in on weekends to say hi is actually working Roll I mean after all, they don't play this game amirite???


Sigh. Let me explain ONE MORE TIME for the troll...

You said it was still the weekend. That implies it is still sunday unless you are in the middle of the Atlantic... Ergo you would have to be based in the US. Otherwise it is MONDAY and it is NOT the weekend anymore, even if someone is still asleep.

I NEVER said their day starts at 3am. I said it was 3am on a WORK DAY and as such I said Anyone taking bets on if CCP will respond to this during the day??? See how that works??? If CCP will respond during the day is FUTURE tense - i.e. later in the day, it being the 19th (Monday!!!).

And I said that devs DO respond out of business hours - which IS working if they are representing CCP (by using their CCP accounts vs an anonymous pilot).


Oh sorry you think the US is the only country in the world that is still on Sunday. I mean, Canada, Mexico, and the French Polymesia is now enjoying Monday. Roll

Oh sorry you think the Atlantic is still on Sunday, even though it's Monday in the Atlantic right now Roll

Oh sorry you think that as soon as someone goes to sleep on Sunday, it becomes monday for them regardless Roll

Oh sorry I don't see how that works, after all I'm a troll amirrite? Roll

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Disaster Strikes
#15 - 2011-12-19 06:03:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DelBoy Trades
If you don't log in for a year in an alliance you'll be kicked, however, if you don't log in when you're in TLF, 24th etc. You will never be kicked, how many of those thousands of players in FW are even still subbed??

-1 from Minmatar, my (now ignored) TLF mission farmer.

Edit: Love it how OP thinks the whole western hemisphere is the US, psst, don't tell Canada.

Damn nature, you scary!
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-12-19 07:00:26 UTC
Really? The game boots you from an alliance? I always thought it was the corps that did that. Well, I guess that is ME informed!!!

And I'm pretty sure I know the difference Delboy. I just got to Brock being American due to his comments... A Canadian wouldn't be that quick to jump in and start ripping into me without first reading and comprehending what was said...

BTW - I AM aware it is Monday in the Atlantic NOW... When I posted it was 3am eve time. That would be GMT -3, which puts some of the atlantic in monday and some in sunday...

My comment still stands - DURING the day, which was posted on a Monday server and iceland time...

And yes - if I go to sleep on a sunday, it ALWAYS becomes Monday for me regardless. The earth doesn't stop revolving when I am asleep... I never said it happened WHEN someone went to bed (you did). I said it happened while they were IN BED... Duh!!!
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#17 - 2011-12-19 08:58:59 UTC
I've taken part in FW for quite a while...

0.0 is just easier, more profitable, easy to boot a spy that joined the alliance as soon as you pinpoint him, safer and you can just go high sec if you want a short break.

At the same time FW takes a lot of problems with it - a lot of people who won't take part in pvp, thus making hard to actually make a good fleet, no way to boot spies militia-wide since any corp can just join and leave as they please without any verification, no way to actually escape free of concord pvp since even in your own high sec enemy militia can come and nail you (militia high sec dps is not only tankable, it's easy to tank). I moved to 0.0 after noticing that FW is just too risky and the risk vs reward is too small.

And well, I am all for making boosts and fixes to FW. It's probably the most fun RP thing I've ever participated in, plus the awesomness of having fleets that actually change something on the map, while the same small fleets would change nothing in 0.0, except giving someone easy kills.

I take off my hat to militia members since they are playing eve the hard way.

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2011-12-19 16:31:22 UTC
Pulgy wrote:
As many have pointed out, the vast majority of those numbers are mission runners, most likely alts from alliances looking to make a quick buck.
At any given time the gallente side has no more than 70 active pvp pilots...yeah.



I don't think they are mission runners. There aren't *that* many stealthbombers running around.

However, I agree, there are not that many people active either.

My hunch is allot of these people may be semi-inactive in eve waiting for ccp to fix fw plexing so it finally delivers allot of small scale pvp for casual players. There may be many times this number who have let their subs lapse while they wait.

In any event the semi-active waiting catagory certainly explains my 2 characters.

FW is really the last hope for eve players who like pvp/good fights but don't want to have to devote their lives to the game.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-21 02:09:50 UTC
Regardless of if they are active or not, that is amount that the game reports, same as that is the amount that the game reports when you view alliance rankings. Whether they are active accounts or not is impossible to determine...
What it does show is that alot of people have come to look at FW and never left it, even if they left eve.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#20 - 2011-12-21 02:18:44 UTC
Truth in advertising, I like it.

Those are definitely numbers.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
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