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Dev blog: Coming to EVE Online in the Proteus Release on January 13th

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Author
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#121 - 2014-12-24 02:56:17 UTC
Sable Moran wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
ps: CCP please stop this symmetry madness Sad
Yes, symmetry must stop.

Symmetry is cheaper to render.

A bilateral symmetric 3D model requires 1/2 the geometry and 1/2 the texture map of an asymmetric 3D model.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-12-24 03:20:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Sizeof Void wrote:
Sable Moran wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
ps: CCP please stop this symmetry madness Sad
Yes, symmetry must stop.

Symmetry is cheaper to render.

A bilateral symmetric 3D model requires 1/2 the geometry and 1/2 the texture map of an asymmetric 3D model.

So what happens when they aren't actually completely bilaterally symmetrical as is the case with the new Exequror?
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#123 - 2014-12-24 03:29:50 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Sable Moran wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
ps: CCP please stop this symmetry madness Sad
Yes, symmetry must stop.
Symmetry is cheaper to render.

A bilateral symmetric 3D model requires 1/2 the geometry and 1/2 the texture map of an asymmetric 3D model.
So what happens when they aren't actually completely bilaterally symmetrical as is the case with the new Exequror?

Less efficient, ofc.

There are a number of shader & rendering tricks, though, which can make a model appear asymmetric, yet still benefit from the savings of symmetric geometry and texture maps.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2014-12-24 03:35:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Sizeof Void wrote:
Less efficient, ofc.

There are a number of shader & rendering tricks, though, which can make a model appear asymmetric, yet still benefit from the savings of symmetric geometry and texture maps.

That calls the motive into question as the same tactics could be applied to old models as well. But the real test would be finding these half models/textures and the asymmetrical "parts" in the client files. To my knowledge this hasn't been done despite some models being found of newer, slightly asymmetrical ships not too long ago.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, but that evidence doesn't support the reasoning unless I'm missing something.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#125 - 2014-12-25 23:34:07 UTC
A suggestion for a future release, one which should help clean up the database:

1) Remove all POSes, which have been unfueled for a year or more.
2) Remove the assets of all unsubbed players, who have been unsubbed for a year or more.
3) Dissolve all corps, whose members have been unsubbed for a year or more, and remove the corp's assets.

This can be scheduled to begin relatively far off in the future, such as next December, so that no one will have any reason to complain. And, a list of the affected assets can be saved, with the names of the players and/or corps, so that returning players can always petition for a reimbursement for, or replacement of, those assets - again, so there will be no reason for anyone to complain.

A more entertaining alternative to simply removing the assets may be to jettision them into space, as a jetcan free-for-all. In the case of POSes, they can simply be unanchored - letting anyone scoop them up.

I'm sure that the EVE database, like most databases which have been running for years, is pretty cluttered with entries which are rarely, if ever, accessed. Removing these entries should significantly improve the performance of the database, and the lists of those removed assets, and their owners, can be kept offline, if the need to restore them ever occurs.

And, writing a SQL script to do this is pretty easy - not more than a few hours of work, at most. It is certainly cheaper, too, than upgrading the servers or adding more, and more, disk drives.
Fujiko MaXjolt
ACME HARDWARE
Exxitium
#126 - 2014-12-26 15:15:54 UTC
I really, really, REALLY hope you guys will rethink the combat recon rebalance.
The problem isn't so much them being immune to d-scan, as it is the combination of that and them basically being a HAC landing on your grid that you can't detect.
At least the force recons are fairly flimsy and easy to kill (in exchange for their immunity to d-scan in the form of cloaking).

Or allow us to fit a module to allow our d-scan to detect them at least...
On that note, maybe even a module to extend your d-scan range - possibly at the cost of resolution (being able to tell ship-type) ?
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#127 - 2014-12-27 23:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sol Project
Copypasting my response from a different thread here.

Seems slightly off, but fits just fine.


Quote:
I don't know what people would usually expect from me regarding this topic ...
... but there is not a shadow of a doubt that this is a seriously ****** up change that makes no sense in actual ingame reality.


Yes, "new player friendly" corporations get awoxxed ... and they do that rightfully so!

Because they are crap.


Unless CCP creates a few dozen alts ...
... and starts checking out all these crappy corps ...
... and then comes to a proper conclusion ...
... any proposed change based on "data" is simply bullshit.


If the Minutes actually have anything relevant to actual reality (= what actually really happens ingame) ...
... then please point me to a page so I can read it up.


Everything else is just crap and bullshit. Most "new player friendly corps" out there get killed off for the
simple reason that they are not doing anyone any good. It makes NO sense at all to remove the mechanic
just because some people get killed inside the corp.

If the CEO isn't smart enough to keep his people together, safe or gather them up to fight the awoxxer,
then it's not the fault of the mechanic! And no ******* one can tell me that a bunch of noobs couldn't
properly deal with an awoxxer. Put ten noobs in frigates with a proper FC and they kick ass.

Most "new player friendly" corps out there are only about dicksizes. How many members the CEOs can gather.
Carebear CEOs.

This is what it's really about, because no one who is actually worth running such a corp would whine about
awoxxers or would be unable to get his people together and fight whatever threat there is!

Only carebears whine about this. If CCP caters to these people then ooohhh boooyyy good night EVE ONLINE,
because we will see an influx of horrible losers this game will not survive in the long run! These people will
shape the future of this game, because they have power over new players!

It's bad enough with all the assholes in rookiecorps telling people to mine or run missions.



With such a change it will only get WORSE!




I said it before, I am saying it again:

The whole issue has NOTHING to do with game mechanics and is ALL about social engineering!


If you give carebears more power you will only hurt yourself in the long run.


The issue has nothing to do with game mechanics.
It's all about social engineering.


If you want to raise player retention, then remove the ability for carebears to create new player friendly corps.

The issue is not that players get killed,
the issue is that people do not understand the game.

That's not because they are getting killed,
but because of stupid CEOs not teaching the game properly.

Or because of idiots who are new themselves and start such a corp, not getting it.

Or because of other idiots who tell their members to stay docked instead of fighting.


YOUR ISSUE WITH PLAYER RETENTION ARE CAREBEARS, NOT MECHANICS!

After ten years you still have not managed to realise that the issue is a social engineering one!


It *IS* that simple!


Would you rather prefer we players RIP it completely OFF of your hands?

And I am not talking about the CAREBEARS here!


Have you ever realised how much POWER people have with the influence over new players??

Did you put ANY controls into the game to make sure that not the wrong people have that power
and that people who do not even realise the power do not actually get to have it??


I will repeat it one more time for you.


Your low player retention is because of CAREBEARS NEGATIVELY INFLUENCING PEOPLE!

Of COURSE there are new carebears coming to the game ... that's perfectly fine though!
No one says we can't have carebears in the game,
but you should NEVER let the carebears have power over new players!

THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING THOUGH!


If you want to fix your freaking player retention,
then take the concept of rookie corps and shove it into the trash bin.

Keep the really successfull ones like Scope and CAS and instead have
EVE UNIVERSITY
RVB
BRAVE NEWBIES
et al
as actual new player corps!


Instead of forcing new players into isolation through rookie corps and hoping
that they find friends, force new players into an actual, working community
and THEN let them decide if they want to play solo!


Boom, I just made 80% of your freaking issue go away!


This **** really works! BOOM I AM SAVING YOUR FREAKING GAME!


Of course I can not craft every single freaking detail out for you,
but THIS WOULD WORK! TAKE IT! ACCEPT IT! DO IT!

STOP with the nonsense of rookie corps that force people into isolation!

STOP with giving CAREBEARS who do not really want this game to be the way it is
the power to influence new players!


Put new players into ACTUAL COMMUNITIES that CATER to them!
Communities that can not be controlled by carebears!



If you bring this aggro change, what will happen is that new player corps will get even more wardecced than before.
Eventually you will "realise" that this hurts player retention and then will try to put and end to it,
AGAIN completely missing the actual point and what's going on in your ingame reality!


This change will help NOTHING at all,
because you do not understand the issue with your player retention and how to form the minds of rookies!


Crowd Control Productions! HA!

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!

Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#128 - 2014-12-29 18:17:50 UTC
When is the next Tactical Destroyer being released?
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#129 - 2014-12-30 15:48:19 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Mining changes have been talked about and thought of for a while now both internally and externally. There are thoughts on changing the gameplay of mining to make it more of a visceral experience, and provide miners with a range of passive and active gameplay that they can choose how much they engage in.
With that being said other issues are taking precedence in the near/mid future.


Even considerably reducing the cycle time of mining modules would help reduce the mind numbing operation of mining.

I mean what is it, 3 minutes? I haven't mind in a long time and don't plan to any time soon, but omg, 3 minutes? What were you thinking.
J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#130 - 2014-12-30 23:35:04 UTC
If we're not getting the next tactical destroyer in proteus, could we at least get the tactical destroyer skill books, so we're ready to rock when the others come out?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2015-01-02 14:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
nice. I like the macross look

J A Aloysiusz wrote:
If we're not getting the next tactical destroyer in proteus, could we at least get the tactical destroyer skill books, so we're ready to rock when the others come out?

this is such a good request it hurts.
Cpt Gini Seal
Bergbau und Schutz KEG
#132 - 2015-01-04 20:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Gini Seal
Here a little Update from a Player

If even the Corps to be revised, then I would have some suggestions:
Maybe you get sometimes a response from the concerned personnel who read these ideas forward, or perhaps even a comment would be nice.

1. Corp: transfer money to the main account should also be simplified for the members here, that is that you can transfer money from his account. What my Noobs only about detours is possible!
Example: Corp looking at the bar / click, click Corp_logo, a new window opens Search Corp name and next click on the info button, then click in the new window at the top left on the 4 strokes, giving money .... far too cumbersome in my opinion

Currently: Awkward on the way as described above or the CEO and directors, which unnecessarily forces back and forth the money! Constant check whether the payments comply with the goods issues !!! We want to play !!!

2. Station : enable station hangar sale, I've Equipment, Skills, and ships are for Noobs in my hangar and must take everything into their own hands if I want to sell it to them. Why not just allow the corp hangar, as a sale, just for the Corp? Saves the director responsible a lot of work to spend and what the terms flying back and forth! If any members that need and every 5 minutes from the pretty annoying!

3. Station: can sort or classify hangar better, the seven main hangars, should be able to be classified under way, according to need, we have a lot of stuff lying on station and tens of thousands of containers where everything is in it!
The hangar, with different benenn ble Labels share that one example Skills and blueprints can be distributed in the related subcategories.

4. Position: Personal hangars should be appreciated as well as the station hangar of the members, if I do have to break down what I destroy one probably unintentionally something, one probably should also be possible that you can remove the stuff out of the hangar as a package as CEO and the Members may determine as contractual.

5. EVE-Mail: mailing system, one probably should be revised times so you can for example set instances, post is to write to the entire Corp. yes easy. But one probably should not consider a title related mailings. Post only for directors, post only for the CEO / Co-CEO

6. Corp: The entire system Corp revise my Director of the Corp has made to award the title, had already complete a half EVE-study so that we at all times a clear view of what had what items are fixed. Where are the Info button, dammit. And please no official German course when it comes. We do not want to study play!

7. Corp: Corp Logo, the possibility also upload their own thing? nothing against the kits but they are probably a bit poor. Then you could make a lot more drauß if you sometimes can even ran. Or, more options give the designs as a shield crest quarters can (4 elements in a choice), allow color coding (instead of just the 16 color standard), may be allowed to integrate what itself (self-created graphics upload as with alliances),

8. Ship Designs: Colors of ships, one probably can create a color designer? For example, the ships Corp uniformly plate? must not be much yes, STO can design all compatible with each other.

9. Corp: Adjust the Auto-discharge. This means that you can set periods in which players Corp be removed.
(Member XY is for 2 months without apology Offline, kick)
(Member YX is for 2 months with apologies offline, remains)
Save-time on the part of the directors and CEO who want to keep their Corp clean.

so that it was only once, as far as I think.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#133 - 2015-01-05 00:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangeresque Too
CCP Terminus wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:
… usually of the Restrained type …

But you're not going call them that, right?


"Dear newbies … despite their name, the Hobbled Overdrive Injector System is actually better than the basic Overdrive Injector System I."

(Elements of this story have been exaggerated for dramatic effect)

So as stated earlier we've revised the naming system taking everyone's feedback into account.
More specifically the naming style will now consist of three parts [flavour] [specialization] [module type]. So you will see Restrained modules, but they'll be Type-D Restrained Overdrive Injectors for example. This will also be retroactively applied to modules which lost their flavour names in the last tiericide pass so everything should be consistent.
Also note this naming scheme is only for the named modules (meta 1-4), we aren't touching the other names.

There will be a dev blog out about the module tiericide most likely on Tuesday.
But what I have never understood, what part of the game's lore is "Type-D"... I mean really, most of these names are just extra descriptors with no understandable or stated tie to anything about the Eve universe. And I'd rather not have to deal with hundreds or thousands of modules that have short/long sentences for names when 2-3 words would be more than sufficient.

People keep complaining about the lore, please tell me, what do any of those descriptors have anything to do with lore? And ships have lore too, but you don't see something called Type-D Scoped Megathron... instead you get a tab that has the history and lore of the ship, why not the same for modules with a more simplistic and understandable abbreviated naming convention and then a separate area to spell out legitimate lore for a module past Type-D or EP-S Gaussian, as by itself just clutters the module name lists.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#134 - 2015-01-06 01:52:04 UTC
Since SP clones are gone, and since the risk vs. reward of high-sec ganking is ridiculously now in favor of the reward, I'd like to suggest that pods of outlaws (-5 sec status or lower) become valid free-for-all high-sec targets, with no sec status penalties for shooting them.

Gotta keep that risk vs reward thing balanced.... :)
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#135 - 2015-01-08 02:17:40 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Since SP clones are gone, and since the risk vs. reward of high-sec ganking is ridiculously now in favor of the reward, I'd like to suggest that pods of outlaws (-5 sec status or lower) become valid free-for-all high-sec targets, with no sec status penalties for shooting them.
You haven't actually tried this in game did you? Because anyone -5 is free to shoot anywhere in hisec, but like you said, they have little risk as they are usually in a cheap dessie, noobship, or a pod. So shooting them is of extremely non-incentived, at most if you catch one you might inconvenience them a couple minutes.
Jed Clampett
Doomheim
#136 - 2015-01-09 13:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jed Clampett
Structure survey sucked big time. The survey was unfortunately written in a way where many questions are understandable only to CCP and CSM insiders who have a common understanding based on a very long discussion history of these topics. Sometimes the survey creator just goes too far in use of vagueness as a quick way to pursuit neutrality between choices.

EVE players in general do not know which concepts/implementations have already been depreciated by the development team and CSM as less practical or undesirable. Survey takers might confuse rejected ideas with ideas still under consideration due to seeming similar in many aspects prior to critical analysis. Its clear that the survey creator forgets at times that the general EVE population does not know what the final candidate choices are and how those choices are named.

A lot of vagueness came from undefined terminology that is not yet very standardized across EVE. Survey takers were left to take their own uninformed guess as to what terminology meant. The survey needed a Wiki dictionary link to nail down the fine but critical points of each term or to use an introductory paragraph before question in lieu of undefined shorthand terms. In fact some terms might still be fairly unique to CCP and CSM insiders who have been evolving shorthand for repeated CONFIDENTIAL discussions on certain topics.



CONCLUSION:
Future surveys need quality assurance testing before release. Two or three levels of critique by someone other than the team insiders and survey creator. All testing should attempt to ensure clarity to someone new to the discussion / choices. The last step should presenting the survey to a small cross-section group of players -- ones not working with CSM.

Obviously even the best survey will have many subtleties that are not going to be clear to noobs or those who never play that aspect of EVE. But simply never having discussed the topic with GMs or reading 100% of the forums every day should not be a bar to those who do use those aspects of EVE.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#137 - 2015-01-09 22:20:15 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Since SP clones are gone, and since the risk vs. reward of high-sec ganking is ridiculously now in favor of the reward, I'd like to suggest that pods of outlaws (-5 sec status or lower) become valid free-for-all high-sec targets, with no sec status penalties for shooting them.
You haven't actually tried this in game did you? Because anyone -5 is free to shoot anywhere in hisec, but like you said, they have little risk as they are usually in a cheap dessie, noobship, or a pod. So shooting them is of extremely non-incentived, at most if you catch one you might inconvenience them a couple minutes.

You can shoot their ship, without a sec status penalty, but not their pod.
Oraac Ensor
#138 - 2015-01-10 01:16:14 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Dangeresque Too wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Since SP clones are gone, and since the risk vs. reward of high-sec ganking is ridiculously now in favor of the reward, I'd like to suggest that pods of outlaws (-5 sec status or lower) become valid free-for-all high-sec targets, with no sec status penalties for shooting them.
You haven't actually tried this in game did you? Because anyone -5 is free to shoot anywhere in hisec, but like you said, they have little risk as they are usually in a cheap dessie, noobship, or a pod. So shooting them is of extremely non-incentived, at most if you catch one you might inconvenience them a couple minutes.

You can shoot their ship, without a sec status penalty, but not their pod.

Evelopedia wrote:
The penalties for pod killing are suitably harsh for the effect it can have on the victim pilot. The security penalties are very steep in high security and low security space. However, there is no security penalty for destroying pods belonging to a war target or to an outlaw (a player with -5 security rating or less), nor to players in 0.0 and Wormhole Space.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#139 - 2015-01-10 01:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sizeof Void
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Evelopedia wrote:
The penalties for pod killing are suitably harsh for the effect it can have on the victim pilot. The security penalties are very steep in high security and low security space. However, there is no security penalty for destroying pods belonging to a war target or to an outlaw (a player with -5 security rating or less), nor to players in 0.0 and Wormhole Space.
Hmm, thanks for pointing me to this... maybe I'll give it a try and see what actually happens. I've been operating under a misconception and letting those red pods go free for years... how embarassing... :)

Unfortunately, though, it also says:
Evelopedia wrote:
Warning: Killing capsules of members who belong to NPC corporations can cause large standings penalties with those corporations, even if the person you attacked was an outlaw or otherwise legal to engage at the time. Duels are included in this.
So, I may have gotten this mixed up with sec status.

New recommendation: Remove *all* penalties for killing red pods!
Oraac Ensor
#140 - 2015-01-10 02:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Sizeof Void wrote:
Evelopedia wrote:
Warning: Killing capsules of members who belong to NPC corporations can cause large standings penalties with those corporations, even if the person you attacked was an outlaw or otherwise legal to engage at the time. Duels are included in this.

Yeah, I got caught with that one.

I spent weeks trying to figure out why my Gallente main's standing with the Center for Advanced Studies had taken a sudden nose-dive.

Then I discovered that rule and realised I had repeatedly blown up and podded one of their members who had been misbehaving.